Comments on Decompressing Faith: Fear and Honesty: You are what You Read

What a treasure you are. Pagans can be wonderful p...

2009-12-24T03:35:04.744-08:00

What a treasure you are. Pagans can be wonderful people. And their powers really work

Hi Jeff...I have so wanted to follow your Darkness...

2009-07-17T09:58:34.203-07:00

Hi Jeff...I have so wanted to follow your Darkness posts, I just haven't had the time yet. I hope to read them soon.

I love finding those "nuggets of truth" in the most unexpected places; not only does it keep things interesting, but it broadens and deepens my own faith.

I haven't read Velvet Elvis, but I love that quote. It's so very true.

Hi Leann, it's very nice to meet you. I apologize ...

2009-07-17T09:56:18.237-07:00

Hi Leann, it's very nice to meet you. I apologize for taking so long to respond, that's atypical for me...it's just been a busy week.

I agree completely about there being a lot of freedom, but it being painful to find. Mostly it takes time, and patience, and the willingness to walk through the doors that are opened for you, even if they lead away from conventional religious beliefs.

I wish you the best and hope to see you back here again soon!

Sorry for being so late to the party...just gettin...

2009-07-14T19:49:38.003-07:00

Sorry for being so late to the party...just getting caught up in my blog *reading* after doing so much blog *writing*... :)

What you shared about once worrying about what you read ties in to a recent thread of posts I've been doing about finding God in the darkness. Part of that journey for me has been right here in blogland, learning to interact with people who see things much differently than I do, and finding nuggets of profound truth in what they say.

I like the way Rob Bell put it in "Velvet Elvis", that if all truth belongs to God, then we can claim truth wherever we find it. Truth is not "less truth" if it comes from the mouth of one who is not a Christian.

BTW...thanks for the link love a few posts back. Just now found it. :)

i relate to the process. i left a huge evangelica...

2009-07-14T00:35:19.824-07:00

i relate to the process. i left a huge evangelical group of Christians to find other Christians who are more community oriented and real. and like you said, i don't need to follow religion. there's lots of freedom and i'm looking for it and it's PAIN-FUL. -it's the baggage from growing up that i think (now) makes it painful. but being less isolated by being real helps with the burden.

Truth meter. I like that, Gary. I always talk abou...

2009-07-11T12:18:19.681-07:00

Truth meter. I like that, Gary. I always talk about my personal spiritual boundaries, but it's really the same thing as you talk about here. That inner sense that tells when something can be valuable to our faith, and when something ought to be discarded or ignored.

For so long those things followed some arbitrary rules that the Christian establishment told me were truth. Now, I just use that inner sense to find truth.

"there have always been central truths which have been reinforced by just about every religion and philosophy I have encountered."

That's pretty much how I see it, too.

Thanks Fiona. I agree completely. I think the ston...

2009-07-11T12:13:16.196-07:00

Thanks Fiona. I agree completely. I think the stones do cry out...and the trees and the grass and the wind. I love that.

I think non christian artists can have an honesty that is so much more realistic than many christian musicians, and I love it. They sing about real life.

Of course, the first line in my previous post shou...

2009-07-09T08:39:45.072-07:00

Of course, the first line in my previous post should have been:

I believe that no religion or philosophy survives WITHOUT a core of truth.

I believe that no religion or philosophy survives ...

2009-07-09T08:31:18.158-07:00

I believe that no religion or philosophy survives with a core of truth. Sometimes it may be what people "want to be true", but still it passes their internal "truth meter." I think a lot of things influence an individual's truth meter: major societal changes, personal experience, respected teachers, trauma, etc.

As humans we often feel that we have to protect our truth meter. I think there is an instinctual knowledge that it is a delicate instrument, vulnerable to manipulation. Fanaticism is the strongest wall we can erect to protect our truth meter. It's especially effective if you include hatred and dehumanization of those who do not share a similarly calibrated truth meter.

For along time I was wary of my preChristian fascination with Buddhism and Taoism. Now I celebrate the parts of those philosophies which expand my own understanding of life and God.

My experience has been that as I expose myself to new ideas that though my truth meter may take a beating now and then, in the end it always seems to more reliable. As I encounter different "truths" I see which ones fit in my paradigm and which do not. That's not to say that it can't change as much as it between now and the time when I was a fundamentalist. It can. But it seems that there have always been central truths which have been reinforced by just about every religion and philosophy I have encountered.

Sorry for rambling.

Wow. Wonderful reflection Erin. It reminded me of ...

2009-07-09T01:53:12.257-07:00

Wow. Wonderful reflection Erin. It reminded me of that verse that says somethinglike if my followers are silenced even the stones will cry out. I am 100% sure that God finds his way into the world through what some "christians" would deem as less than savoury methods. I don't know how many times I have picked up very distinct God/Jesus sentiments from artists I listen to who don't belong to any faith tradition. If we're not going to get the message out there, He'll get it out any way he can. So with you on this one.

Thanks for your thoughts, Jarred. I think I would ...

2009-07-07T12:53:23.131-07:00

Thanks for your thoughts, Jarred. I think I would find a different response if I didn't comment under my own name...but I like to be authentic, and to do that just so they can't find my blog and won't know I'm christian seems dishonest.

In any case, you're right, and we do need to learn to avoid stereotypes in general...whether religious or any one of the other ways we try to categorize people.

Thanks Nate. You know I hesitate to shed the label...

2009-07-07T12:37:04.100-07:00

Thanks Nate. You know I hesitate to shed the label entirely, but I like your approach. I agree we have to learn to work around the stereotypes but it's so hard to do.

Speaking as someone "on the other side of the equa...

2009-07-07T06:22:58.891-07:00

Speaking as someone "on the other side of the equation," so to speak, I do think it's important to offer a different perspective.

Yes, some Christians have done some pretty nasty things to Pagans. I could tell a few stories there myself. But not all Christians have done nasty things to Pagans. Considering that one of the big complaints we Pagans have about Christians is that they (or at least the nasty ones) tend to stereotype us, I think we Pagans need to learn not to stereotype all Christians as the mean and nasty kind. After all, that's just following the Golden Rule. (You know, the Golden Rule that we Pagans often criticize the nasty Christians for not following. Hrm, I'm seeing a pattern here...)

And lets face it, the nasty Christians are nasty to everyone. They're even nasty to other Christians. We Pagans would do well to remember this, as some of those Christians who have been victims of the same nasty Christians could be great friends and allies.

In the end, I agree that it's unfortunate that some Christians have done some horrible things. But as your friend, I'd advise you and other Christians who haven't been nasty (or have quit being nasty because you realized it wasn't right), I wouldn't be too quick to wear the nasty Christians' garbage or take on too much of their guilt. After all, you've been hurt just as much as those you feel guilty about.

-- Jarred.

Well actually lately I have had some success sayin...

2009-07-06T00:23:37.820-07:00

Well actually lately I have had some success saying this, "I am a very devout person, but no longer participate in church." This normally precipitates a "Shy is that?" I normally whip a quick I couldn't tolerate this or that. then they know that I am not THAT type of christian. They are willing to listen to the things that I have learned outside of church. They actually listen.

Hi Nate. I certainly understand your position. I h...

2009-07-05T08:07:19.023-07:00

Hi Nate. I certainly understand your position. I hesitate to identify myself as a Christian...it's not something I go around doing. But anyone who visits my blog through a link or whatnot, they quickly determine my faith, and all the assumptions that go with it.

But I think when all is said and done, it's difficult to avoid the baggage, regardless. For instance, you might say you are christianos, and someone doesn't know what that means so they ask who you follow...your answer would be Jesus. Their response "Oh, you're a Christian", and suddenly 2000 years of crap is heaped on you anyhow and you spend 37 days explaining why none of that applies to you.

I'd be interested to know if that is your personal experience, or what you have learned about such exchanges that helps you avoid the "baggage" and assumptions.

That is exactly why I do not, nor will I take the ...

2009-07-04T21:30:33.965-07:00

That is exactly why I do not, nor will I take the christian label. Too much baggage to carry, that I had nothing to do with. I am not a "christian" in the popular definition of the word, and do not want people to be put off from it.

I will accept christianos, slave to the Christ.

Just for you, a Buhdist saying, "you must be in the world, but you do not have to be of the world." Sound familiar.

I haven't tried it, but I will when I have a chanc...

2009-07-03T23:13:57.729-07:00

I haven't tried it, but I will when I have a chance. I have heard about it.

Have you tried xylitol as an articial sweetener? ...

2009-07-03T21:12:31.464-07:00

Have you tried xylitol as an articial sweetener? It's actually made from the sugar out of vegetables, but its got a low GI and is good for diabetics. Tastes pretty alright, too.

This has turned into "You Are What You Eat" along with "You Are What You Read" :)

Oh and if it is an issue for you, on the artificia...

2009-07-03T21:08:32.255-07:00

Oh and if it is an issue for you, on the artificial sweetener, I've switched to stevia instead of equal or splenda. You can usually find it with the other artificial sweeteners, but it's more natural . Sometimes it's marketed with a brand name, like Truvia.

Do you have a dehyrator, Kari? I've been consider...

2009-07-03T21:06:34.338-07:00

Do you have a dehyrator, Kari? I've been considering getting one for ages.

If you read the blogs of people who eat raw food, it's astounding how much better they feel and how far we are from eating stuff that's "real" so much of the time. I harbour this desire to become a raw foodie with glistening eye whites, but I am very far from that indeed. Still, fascinating to read about.

Well said, Ruth. Spot on. It sort of baffles me s...

2009-07-03T21:04:58.474-07:00

Well said, Ruth. Spot on. It sort of baffles me sometimes when people make those sorts of comments that you are about to abandon your faith. If you have caught a whiff of Him, if you have begun walking with him, why would you walk away simply because of someone else somewhere else expressing the same truths you have come upon yourself? It doesn't make any sense (and says more about other people's faith than your own, which is why it doesn't concern me all that much anymore)

Kari - Well, I have to tell you, I'm not a fundame...

2009-07-03T21:01:36.029-07:00

Kari - Well, I have to tell you, I'm not a fundamentalist about it. I make exceptions to everything, but try to always be aware of what we are eating and make educated exceptions. Oh, and LOL, this isn't meant to be a lecture, just my thoughts. Every family is different. Take what you can use.

First, the big 3 No-no's: very limited amounts of high fructose corn syrup, hydrogenated oils, and artificial sweeteners (which I make some exceptions for myself on, because I'm a diabetic and there are limits to everything else I can drink except water). MSG isn't one I've run into a lot, but I know it just depends on what your family likes to eat. It would be on my list of no-no's too.

Second: Eat organic whenever possible.

Third: Whenever possible, opt for real food...i.e. all the ingredients in something are actual food, not additives, not preservatives, not chemicals, etc.

Other thoughts: skip the canned fruits and veggies, eat more fish and cook with olive oil whenever the taste won't mess it up. Shop at farmers markets and growers outlets. Go to u-pick places. Shop at Trader Joe's, if you don't already. Hopefully there is one near you.

Confession: I don't grow/make much of my own stuff, simply because I don't have a lot of talent in that area. Not kidding. My sister got that gene.

However to be entirely honest, we don't spend more to eat healthier. Healthier, more natural, organic food costs more, but has more nutrients and therefore a person naturally eats less of it. How many cheetos can a person eat vs. sunflower nuts? I haven't added it up, but I am convinced we spend less since we've made these changes.

I know with smaller kids it's harder, because they can be picky and sometimes it's just exhausting to think about. So consider trying to just change one or two things and don't go whole hog all at once. Like juice, for instance. My kids drank a ton of it when they were smaller, and I never read the labels. There is so much HFCS and artificial ingredients in so many kinds of juice. I wish I had realized.

Hope some of this helps!

Ruth - I agree! I think what I learn from other fa...

2009-07-03T20:36:51.300-07:00

Ruth - I agree! I think what I learn from other faiths only enriches my own journey, and helps me know Jesus in new ways.

Just read your comment to Sue...about food labels....

2009-07-03T20:27:07.270-07:00

Just read your comment to Sue...about food labels...and have recently been learning just how much crap we eat too...mostly sugar crap. There is sugar in everything! And MSG in everything...I am trying (tho with 2 little ones and limited funds it's hard) to find ways to eat better, freeze, can, dehydrate natural foods to not use preservatives. If you have any recommendations, let me know. Sorry this is completely off topic!

I agree. Truth seeking involves seeking, and weigh...

2009-07-03T08:45:45.191-07:00

I agree. Truth seeking involves seeking, and weighing it up to see if it is sincere. I find that other spiritual thinkers express real spiritual principles that we find in the bible, and they help me put it into perspective. Many of them, like Wayne Dyer for instance, can explain them in a way that reaches the heart. However, none of them ever talk of an intimate God that knows us personally. I have never felt the desire to abandon my faith in Jesus by reading or listening to other thought. It's only strenghtened it.