Comments on Mapless: The Evil of Being Female (Part 1?)

Kimber - I have read the Red Tent, but not the oth...

2010-07-22T12:35:05.598-07:00

Kimber - I have read the Red Tent, but not the others. Thanks for the suggestions. Today was my last day of summer school and I'm looking forward to having some time to read something other than a textbook!

Hey Nate - missed our comment. I think I've ac...

2010-07-22T12:34:12.211-07:00

Hey Nate - missed our comment. I think I've actually resolved a few things and that's why the flurry of posts.

Cyndi said that there must be something in the air...

2010-07-22T09:58:01.933-07:00

Cyndi said that there must be something in the air... I am late reading this. But I'm catching up now.

I read DDD a while back... LOVED it! Recently, I read some fiction stuff... (Red Tent by Anita Diamant and According to Mary Magdalene by Marianne Fredriksson) and some non-fiction (The Goddess in the Gospels by Margaret Starbird and When God was a Woman by Merlin Stone). I'm loving where this journey is going.

Can't wait to read the rest of your recent posts!!

Wow, nothing really for so long, and then BOOM. I ...

2010-07-15T21:46:50.651-07:00

Wow, nothing really for so long, and then BOOM. I go on vacation and this.

I wondered when you would get to this.

Waiting to see where you go.

Manu - It's all about control. Some men, espci...

2010-07-10T12:51:18.806-07:00

Manu - It's all about control. Some men, espcially in Christianity, still hold tightly to control of women, because, well, because they WANT to. Things work very well for men when women are obedient and submissive. Get to make all the decisions, get waited on...who WOULD want that to change?

But seriously, we live in the present, and that means change, and women - at least in the free world - aren't going to stand for it much longer. It breaks my heart to see the women who are still stuck in this mentality, unable to be individuals, instead only defined by the men they serve (husband, father, pastor, etc) - because they feel like there is no way out.

Cindi - I get you now. I think I have already work...

2010-07-10T12:47:16.420-07:00

Cindi - I get you now. I think I have already worked through this for myself, and am penning it more for posterity than anything. I don't ever want to get sucked into it again, and so if I write it down, I won't forget. And, if it helps someone else, then beautiful!

ughh! it deleted my comment as I was about to type...

2010-07-10T00:19:42.205-07:00

ughh! it deleted my comment as I was about to type.
what I wrote was that I need to explore this more, and also within myself. I have been discounted way too many times and in profound ways because of my gender, in the church and out. I hate it (that's putting it very lightly).
Like you, I tried and played that game and "complement." Well, whatever. That has been so exploited.
And I whole heartedly agree that God is not just male!!!
I hope to find/ make the time to read through some of the recommendations you and Sue have made... ( as of now I am pretty stretched- must find babysitting) But they would be interesting and probably refreshing to read. It's not a perspective that is very prevailing or even that available it seems. Hmmm, I wonder why :)
Thanks for sharing

I meant that the way to healing within yourself is...

2010-07-09T16:00:20.043-07:00

I meant that the way to healing within yourself is to identify and own your experience to be able to move forward. Another saying is "name it to claim it". I know I suck at trying to articulate it and perhaps that was too confusing to state it that way. It's like when something is vague and you don't know why and then you identify it and it all becomes clearer and you can move ahead in a positive direction. Another example of where I was going with that is how different I need to parent our son. Never knew why. But traditional parenting wasn't working. And when in talks with the school, our parenting was questioned and judgements were flown in my direction. Now post-diagnosis, everyone (well, with the exception of certain administrators who apparently just will not get it and choose to remain ignorant) is having our "aha" moments and having identified why it wasn't working, has us now moving forward in the right direction. So, now when someone tries to tell me I should do this or that, I know why everytime I listened and tried this technique or that one out, it backfired and was actually the opposite of the norm. It was all so vague pre-diagnosis. Now it's crystal clear and right there.

I hope that helped clarify? It's okay you can fib to me and tell me yes lol!

Cindi - I suppose because I was so deeply enmeshed...

2010-07-09T13:05:13.013-07:00

Cindi - I suppose because I was so deeply enmeshed in a very conservative christian culture - even if it was only for 10 years or so - my experiences have been different than yours. I married into an entirely different belief system than what we grew up with, and then even when I switched back to the denomination we grew up in, it was entirely different in this area. And I never liked it, but I tried to make do because it seemed like the only choice at the time. Call me naive, but it is what it is.

Not sure what you mean by "your experience is yours to own". Could you elaborate?

I think your experience is your own and yours to o...

2010-07-09T00:04:09.575-07:00

I think your experience is your own and yours to own. I haven't read the book, nor will I (as you well know, I dislike reading altogether lol).

I know what you're talking about though and I know certain points in your adult life that you are referring to.

It's just fascinating to me how your experience is so vastly different from mine growing up in that we grew up (at age 12 to now) virtually together.

This was such an interesting post because it not only gave some insight, but I can totally see what you are saying most especially your issues about 5-6 years ago and when really looking back, I think you had questions even before that (I recall a really interesting conversation at Otter Crest one evening :)

I love you hon and am really proud of you going down this journey for yourself! It takes some major chuzpah to identify it and own it and move forward. You go girl!!!

Sue - You're a catalyst, you know! Keep recomm...

2010-07-08T08:21:06.678-07:00

Sue - You're a catalyst, you know! Keep recommending books to me and who knows what will happen!

Haha Kathy, I was thinking about that too. Thank y...

2010-07-08T08:20:18.636-07:00

Haha Kathy, I was thinking about that too. Thank you for your words, and I am hopeful too that one day this conversation will become mostly unnecessary.

Barry - You are quite right. It's that, combin...

2010-07-08T08:19:11.342-07:00

Barry - You are quite right. It's that, combined with the reality that as humans evolved from hunters/gatherers to agriculturalists, women -- because of childbearing, primarily -- were naturally the ones more tied to hearth and home. And it began.

Thanks Cyndi. It means a lot to have other people ...

2010-07-08T08:17:45.221-07:00

Thanks Cyndi. It means a lot to have other people validate me this way. I think my greatest struggle now isn't with churches treating women as equal, because I know many places do now. I just struggle with anything that honors a faith tradition that has been so discriminatory, even if the current manifestation of that faith is not discriminatory. If that makes sense.

Preach it, sistah :)

2010-07-07T21:49:01.419-07:00

Preach it, sistah :)

thanks for this powerful post, erin. just today i...

2010-07-07T20:47:27.174-07:00

thanks for this powerful post, erin. just today i was thinking about our fun little project that we started but never got off the ground (i saw the google docs stuff the other day) for ex-good-christian-women. i think i got inspired, too, and i have a post in my head right now titled "human beings feel fear, robots don't." i still can't get over that 71% stat on that. anyway, just wanted to tell you how thankful i am for your voice, your story, your courage to speak strongly against the confines of the system and offer hope to those who need to know they aren't alone. i would love for there to come a day in our lifetime when we could say "oh my goodness, things really have changed when it comes to women and the church" but when i read these stats and some of the heated debates about this issue, i am pretty sure it sadly will take much longer than that. still, it will never happen unless we keep standing up against the injustice. sending love from CO.

I think it's all about power. As most men are ...

2010-07-07T14:45:31.689-07:00

I think it's all about power. As most men are more muscular and stronger than most women, they used that in the distant past to subjugate them the same as they subjugated all others who were weaker than them. That led to the superiority complex of many men that lasted for millennia, and is still alive and kicking in many parts of the world, and in many walks of life.

Erin, I read Pam's post and I can't even ...

2010-07-07T12:42:43.232-07:00

Erin,

I read Pam's post and I can't even begin to bring my thoughts into focus. I am grateful to you and to Kathy and to Pam and anyone else who speak because at least I can say, "yeah, what she said"

Dance of the Dissident Daughter has been the most influential book I have ever read ... yes, including the Bible. I know that doesn't shock or surprise you. At times it caused such an ache within me that I couldn't bear it; I had to put it down.

When I have not been able to deny the longing I have to be in face to face faith community, I knew I could never been where women were not acknowledged and celebrated. We are in a lovely community now with a husband/wife co-pastor team. The idea that women would not be allowed in service, in leadership within Godde's community is so foreign to them. I am ever grateful for our paths crossing.

I am anxious to hear more from you about your changing perspective. I wish I had the desire and ability to write more about my own right now. It will come soon, I am sure.