Comments on Mapless: Chicken or Egg

Interesting observations, Donna. I had never reall...

2010-02-03T09:39:26.980-08:00

Interesting observations, Donna. I had never really thought about how spiritual books are often written by introverts. I suppose introverts are more likely to actually sit and write a book, that could be why.

But it sounds like that might be a great book for YOU to write!

I think introverts might be more likely to have low self esteem, if only because they spend so much more time second-guessing themselves and thinking about what they coula/shoulda/woulda done in any given situation.

Not to mention the extroverts who make introverts feel like they are broken for being quiet and withdrawn.

That is just personal experience and observation, though, so I could be wrong. Since I only know one perspective, I recognize that I'm biased.

Interesting topic you got going on here!!! I'v...

2010-01-31T09:21:57.318-08:00

Interesting topic you got going on here!!! I've been thinking a lot about this as well but from an extroverts perspective. Over this past summer I tried to find some books on spirituality for extroverts and only found one book. Most if not all devotional or spirituality books are written by introverts and are often ignored by extroverts who then go on to feel bad for not being "spiritual" enough.
I think the type of church would make a difference as well, there probably aren't many extroverts that are Friends... but I don't have facts on that!!!
Do you really think introverts have lower self-esteem than extroverts? I'm just not sure about that one...
Love you and looking forward to reading more!!

Kari - It's true that an introvert can feel co...

2010-01-17T09:12:21.996-08:00

Kari - It's true that an introvert can feel comfortable in a crowd, just that it saps their energy, rather than building it up.

Introverts are *supposed* to be great public speakers, too, but I have yet to see that in my life!

I absolutely agree Sue. 6-12 months of "be st...

2010-01-17T09:10:09.641-08:00

I absolutely agree Sue. 6-12 months of "be still". Perfect.

I like Jarred's definition, because I am defin...

2010-01-17T05:33:54.285-08:00

I like Jarred's definition, because I am definitely an introvert...but I can function among people quite well if I feel comfortable there...I can even BE the life of the party, but I often realize that when it's over, I'm in desperate need of my alone time to recharge...part of the reason why being a mom of preschoolers is very hard for me. I don't get a lot of personal time anymore. I could be alone ALL of the time, and it would not bother me one bit. BUT, if I were forced to be with others and interact with them all of the time, it is very very hard and tiring.
As I grew up, my father was of the belief that there was no such thing as an introvert, and so then sort of pushed me very hard to get out of my comfort zone, not realizing that it was forcing me to become something totally opposite of how I was created. I think it's true that people who are shy or not comfortable being among the crowd all of the time are looked upon AS HAVING LOW SELF ESTEEM, even though it has much more to do with how we were created. IMO! I have even struggled with this TODAY in my life.

Sigh I guess I am an anomaly. Sigh I'm ...

2010-01-15T15:45:43.886-08:00

*Sigh* I guess I am an anomaly. *Sigh*

I'm so glad you are following your rhythms now instead of feeling broken for not being an out there extrovert. How bizarre that sort of cultural expectation is.

Pretty childish too. I still think the entire Christian culture would do well to simply take on "Be still and know that I am God" and nothing else, and serve a 6 or 12 month sentence on just that :)

Sue, I think you are an anomaly...in every good wa...

2010-01-14T20:51:28.751-08:00

Sue, I think you are an anomaly...in every good way. Because you relate to it all.

I spent most of my formative years being shamed and feeling bad for needing to be alone....which led to serious depression for years for believing I was simply "broken" because I wasn't like other people.

Thank God for the revelations of our midlife, I'm much happier now....not that I'm always happy, but that I don't believe I'm "broken".

Ahhh, ye olde being made to feel bad for being alo...

2010-01-13T15:30:47.917-08:00

Ahhh, ye olde being made to feel bad for being alone. I understand that better now than I would have in, say, my twenties. I happen to be a solitudinal sort of an extrovert (by situation, I guess, but also partially by choice, because I feel like I need to spend plenty of time alone to process what has gone on while I've been out having fun in the world. It's very complex. And so I feel like maybe I am an extrovert who can understand the pain of being made to feel guilty for that. And in Christian circles it would be even more blatant. Why aren't you busting down the church doors every time they're open? Where are you on Wednesday nights? Why aren't you raising your hands and praising thee lawd on Sunday mornings? Etc etc etc etc. Blergh.

@ Jarred - well, it did work that way in my...

2010-01-13T15:28:01.155-08:00

@ Jarred - well, it did work that way in my situation. I am an extrovert, and when I fell apart several years ago, I couldn't bear being with more than two or three people at once, let alone a party. I was spending two or three days alone and having no problems with it at all, and yet I am an extrovert. It's messier than introvert/extrovert distinctions

Absolutely, Maria...introverts probably struggle m...

2010-01-13T11:23:02.289-08:00

Absolutely, Maria...introverts probably struggle more to have peace with their disposition, but coming to that place is nothing but healthy.

Jarred - Thanks for including such a good definiti...

2010-01-13T11:21:51.976-08:00

Jarred - Thanks for including such a good definition of introversion vs. extroversion. I hate the myth that introverts are just "shy" and "just need to come out of their shells"...perpetuated by a lack of understanding about the true nature of the different personalities.

I agree with you, too, that the two (introversion, low self-esteem) can reinforce each other in an unhealthy downward spiral.

I think that's good, too, David. I do think so...

2010-01-13T11:19:17.533-08:00

I think that's good, too, David. I do think some introverts respond by trying to "be different". I know I did for awhile...and after a couple years it beat me down.

I look forward to reading it, Jim.

2010-01-13T11:17:44.371-08:00

I look forward to reading it, Jim.

Barry - You hit on something very important. As ...

2010-01-13T11:17:15.032-08:00

Barry - You hit on something very important.

As children, introverts don't deal well with bullying (well, no child does, but since this is our topic at hand) because they need time to process, so they never have good retorts...and so they don't say anything in their defense, or say something stupid. Therefore, yes they are seen as easy targets for trampling.

They don't speak out in defense of themselves and this can become a vicious cycle...as it did in my life.

Very well put, Ann, and I agree with you.

2010-01-13T11:14:33.749-08:00

Very well put, Ann, and I agree with you.

Jim - Thanks for making that comment, because I re...

2010-01-13T11:12:13.775-08:00

Jim - Thanks for making that comment, because I realized needed to clarify the question.

I think I get you, Sue. I know I have been an intr...

2010-01-13T11:11:01.559-08:00

I think I get you, Sue. I know I have been an introvert since birth, there is no doubt about it. I don't think anyone can CHANGE their personality type, but I know we can adapt to circumstances...and I have known extroverts who feel so bad about themselves that they are quiet and reserved...and introverts who are very sociable and expressive because they are happy with themselves. So the two do play together.

It's interesting, Susan...I had always thought...

2010-01-13T11:07:09.989-08:00

It's interesting, Susan...I had always thought, based on what I've read, that introverts are a minority population...like 25-30%. However, in this book the author states it's much closer to 50%, but that many introverts have adapted their personality in order to function in an extroverted world.

So while I realize not all introverts have low sel...

2010-01-13T11:05:42.488-08:00

So while I realize not all introverts have low self-esteem, many (most) I know do, or did for many years of life.

I think this has to do with being trampled by well-meaning but overbearing extroverts all our lives, who make us feel "weird" or "broken" for needing to be alone. I know that has been a huge factor for me, and I'm just now learning the extent of the damage. I don't blame the extroverts in my life for the pain I have experienced, because I know they know no other way to be, and don't realize what they are doing. But realizing and admitting that my esteem issues have been more personality related than caused by actual worthlessness has had a huge impact on my healing process

Raising two children, one an innie and one an outie, has led more insight than I ever expected.

I also know that introversion and extroversion has to do with how we experience energy...introversion does not mean being shy or whatnot, but gaining energy by processing internally rather than externally.

However, all I think I know about introversion, I (surprisingly) never considered it's role in my disillusionment with religion.

An introvert trying to live as an extrovert will p...

2010-01-13T09:19:26.337-08:00

An introvert trying to live as an extrovert will probably find their self-esteem in shreds after a while... The world does seem to favor the extrovert. Part of the healing process is making peace with one's basic disposition and going with it.

I'm inclined to say "neither." I do...

2010-01-13T08:46:53.541-08:00

I'm inclined to say "neither." I don't think one causes the other. I do think the two qualities can enter into a relationship where they reinforce and strengthen each other, though.

On Sue's comment about low self-esteem making someone who's normally extroverted into an introvert, it doesn't quite work that way. Introversion is about more than avoiding crowds and extroversion is about more than being the life of the party. Introversion and extroversion are about the kinds of situations that we find most energizing and revitalizing. An introvert "recharges her batteries" by having some private time alone. An extrovert "recharges her batteries" by surrounding herself with all kinds of people and activities. Either person can theoretically function just fine in the other situation. They just won't get that "power boost" from it that they get from their preferred setting.

I am an introvert who looks with pity and sympathy...

2010-01-13T08:30:16.582-08:00

I am an introvert who looks with pity and sympathy on those who try to cover their low self esteem with extraversion.

OK, I've thought about it some more, started t...

2010-01-13T08:14:16.475-08:00

OK, I've thought about it some more, started to leave a long comment here, and instead converted it into a blog post. It's been a (purposefully) long time since I've blogged about anything religious, but this one has me thinking.

I suppose introverts can be seen as easy targets b...

2010-01-13T07:28:50.643-08:00

I suppose introverts can be seen as easy targets because they don't make as much fuss as extroverts. That in turn could lead to low self-esteem as a result of always being on the receiving end.

I speak as an introvert who has worked hard to claw back his self-esteem over the past couple of decades and now has a healthy level of self-esteem, albeit tempered by the occasional bit of residual evangelical guilt.

I'll get to everyone's comments soon, but ...

2010-01-13T06:53:21.859-08:00

I'll get to everyone's comments soon, but first, I posted this clarification:

"I don't mean to say all introverts have low-self esteem, or vice-versa; I'm asking the question in regards to those who DO fit into both categories."

Thanks!

Comments on Mapless: Chicken or Egg

Interesting observations, Donna. I had never reall...

Interesting topic you got going on here!!! I'v...

Kari - It's true that an introvert can feel co...

I absolutely agree Sue. 6-12 months of "be st...

I like Jarred's definition, because I am defin...

*Sigh* I guess I am an anomaly. *Sigh* I'm ...

Sue, I think you are an anomaly...in every good wa...

Ahhh, ye olde being made to feel bad for being alo...

@ Jarred - well, it did work that way in my...

Absolutely, Maria...introverts probably struggle m...

Jarred - Thanks for including such a good definiti...

I think that's good, too, David. I do think so...

I look forward to reading it, Jim.

Barry - You hit on something very important. As ...

Very well put, Ann, and I agree with you.

Jim - Thanks for making that comment, because I re...

I think I get you, Sue. I know I have been an intr...

It's interesting, Susan...I had always thought...

So while I realize not all introverts have low sel...

An introvert trying to live as an extrovert will p...

I'm inclined to say "neither." I do...

I am an introvert who looks with pity and sympathy...

OK, I've thought about it some more, started t...

I suppose introverts can be seen as easy targets b...

I'll get to everyone's comments soon, but ...

Sigh I guess I am an anomaly. Sigh I'm ...