Comments on Mapless: The Purposeless Driven Life?

Thanks DrDan. I agree. I wish we could all learn t...

2008-05-14T12:03:00.000-07:00

Thanks DrDan. I agree. I wish we could all learn to make it this simple.

How refreshing and real! Perhaps if we all focuse...

2008-05-14T08:12:00.000-07:00

How refreshing and real! Perhaps if we all focused on the "one thing" principle of scripture in as transparent a manner as this article and its author has done ... just perhaps, we might get back to NT power and presence in this modern, complicated, plural-panting world in which we live.
May your tribe increase and consider me a wanna-be member who honestly joins your struggle.

Dan

Killer! Yay! HomePDX has a link of their own, so n...

2008-03-08T21:01:00.000-08:00

Killer! Yay! HomePDX has a link of their own, so now I don't always have to link to Pam or Donna when I talk about you!

Nice site, by the way.

Erin
The first proof is yours but it must go in...

2008-03-08T20:45:00.000-08:00

Erin
The first proof is yours but it must go in the twenty-five cent (NOT the free) box at your next garage sale.

HEY, our website is up: Google Homepdx.org...clck on "ERROR. PAGE CANNOT" what pops up next is us.
Josh Clark is doing an amazing job of capturing us (the foul language is mine). Origencreatives.com is his website

Hey Ken! Thanks for stopping by. Can I get an adva...

2008-03-07T21:52:00.000-08:00

Hey Ken! Thanks for stopping by. Can I get an advance copy of that for review? ;-)

What you do and the way you inspire reeks of Jesus...that's why we are drawn to it. No formula or label, just Love. That's just so cool.

I'm so thankful Pam and Donna have helped me know more about your mission.

Hey everybody, I HAVE THE ANSWER TO ALL THIS!!!! ...

2008-03-07T21:35:00.000-08:00

Hey everybody, I HAVE THE ANSWER TO ALL THIS!!!! It comes from an Off The Map interview in the Justice and Compassion section:

"What are your hopes and dreams for the future of HOME?

What we have learned about loving the people nobody else wants will spread to the church and then the world. All will be saved and come to the glorious knowledge of the Ken Loyd method of doing mostly nothing special (I’ll write the book)." Zondervan $24.95 (autographed: $99.50)

Thanks to each of you towards me in your kind comments. Mostly I feel unworthy of praise because I have yellow teeth (actually, a rich amber achieved by decades of overindulgence in red wine, coffee and cigarettes) and a plethora of really nasty personal failings.

It is truly heartening to find so many who care about those who have less (less money, housing, love, employment; whatever) than we do. Thank you.

Love,
Ken

Julie - I know. It's so hard to come out of a life...

2008-03-07T16:53:00.000-08:00

Julie - I know. It's so hard to come out of a lifetime of being indoctrinated that there is a "right" way to do everything, or a specific set of actions that go with a purpose (or a label).

That still translates in my life into, "Well, if I'm "missional" I ought to be doing what other missional folks are doing". I need to realize that my purpose isn't your purpose and vice-versa, even if we hold to similar values. But it is hard to unravel that...to learn that my purpose is right where God puts me.

Sorry Blogger ate your comment...which is one of the reasons I'm considering switching. It's become too unstable.

Welcome Kristin. Nice to meet you!

I think ...

2008-03-07T16:48:00.000-08:00

Welcome Kristin. Nice to meet you!

I think I wouldn't like to see a book on the subject because it's not really that complicated. I've heard that quote by Mother Theresa, that too is simple. It can't be turned into a 12 step formula to success, if you know what I mean.

Donna - I thought it was funny that we were going ...

2008-03-07T16:44:00.000-08:00

Donna - I thought it was funny that we were going different directions in terms of our understanding of how "purpose" fits into "leading".

But I can be purposeful in being purposeless, right?

Sara - I do get what you're saying...but I wonder....

2008-03-07T16:43:00.000-08:00

Sara - I do get what you're saying...but I wonder...if 3/4 of the people you met had negative preconceived notions about you simply because your name is Sara, if you would be inclined to, say, start using your middle name?

I do understand about "Christian" being a birthright of sorts...it's just so hard in the world to escape the preconceptions of the people around us, the people who we want to reach. But you're right in that every term becomes a label...I don't know how to resolve that.

okay so the long comment I typed got eaten, lets s...

2008-03-07T16:36:00.000-08:00

okay so the long comment I typed got eaten, lets see what happens now...

I think the learning to serve where we are called is a huge lesson we all need to learn. I will never be Shane Claiborne or discover how to be utterly ethical in my every action. that is so not the point and neither is to feel guilty because of that. Finding that balance between being pushed out of my comfort zone and being true to myself as a believer is an ongoing process.

I don't think a book like that would negate anythi...

2008-03-07T16:16:00.000-08:00

I don't think a book like that would negate anything cuz who are we to presume that we KNOW what the purpose is anyway (short of love?) Wasn't it Mother Teresa who said something like Ken Loyd's? "We're not called to do great deeds but to do small deeds with great love." (or something like that.) I came to your blog via Pam's and really appreciate your thoughtful comments. Please drop by mine sometime (http://losingtheway.blogspot.com) I was in a fundamentalist cult for fifteen years and talk about a purposeless driven life which we thought was The Most Purposeful. It was intense! anyway, glad you're out here. I look forward to reading more. blessings, kristen

Hey Erin!!
It was fun having lunch talking abou...

2008-03-07T08:21:00.000-08:00

Hey Erin!!
It was fun having lunch talking about this stuff a bit with you. You think some pretty deep thoughts and I appreciate you sharing them with us!! You know I'm not much for spending a ton of time shifting thru ideas or programs so it was easy for me to latch onto the idea of serving and loving others as those are things I can DO. To breath deep and know that I'm connected with my Creator and loving others as I love myself is all that's required of me in the process is pretty freeing.
I still find it interesting that you are toying with the idea of a "purposeless life" and I've been exposed to think more of intentionality...I do think they are tied together and for the "purposeless" life you are referring to to be effective there has to be some intentionality driving it.
Love YOU!!!

Very interesting discussion philosophically from m...

2008-03-07T07:14:00.000-08:00

Very interesting discussion philosophically from my language-junkie point of view. All words are merely labels, if you get right down to it, and none of our human language is adequate. Of course if comes with baggage--it has to. As people discuss and use words, they accrete meaning--and we have to have some way to communicate meaning and talk about things. We need words as handles to interact with the world and each other.

I've never much liked being named "Sara." It's not that I don't like the name itself, per se--it's that it seems that approximately 1/3 of all Gen-X women are named Sara or Sarah. So the name has never felt like mine. I desire something that means me in a way that a name I share with so many other women who are so unlike me cannot. Yet I have no desire to legally change my name either--this is what I've got. I can't reinvent myself in a vaccuum. This is what my friends and family know me as. This is the handle that I've built my life around. It would be an awful lot of hassle to change all that . . . besides the fact that it would hurt my mother, which I do not want to do. She chosen this name for her daughter years before it was popular because she loved the name and wanted to give me what she loved.

Can it be sort of the same way with "Christian?" Sure it carries a lot of baggage. Sure it's associated with a lot of people who have abused it. But etymologically, it is "Christ-follower," which is exactly what I am. And besides, if all the baggage forces me to confront the fact that I do this Christ following thing not by myself, but together with a whole bunch of people who I would rather have nothing to do with--and that God loves them as much as me--is that necessarily a bad thing?

You know, it's so funny, Sue. I was just thinking ...

2008-03-07T06:59:00.000-08:00

You know, it's so funny, Sue. I was just thinking the same thing the other day...how choosing, say, political affiliation for instance, seems to put us in a box. Overall, I tend to side with one political party, but don't agree with everything on their agenda. I think that's true of most people.

Same with religion. I don't agree with everything that ANY stream of Christianity believes, and I believe some things that most Christians would say is heresy. I'm sort of lost in spiritual never-never land and I like it there.

It's actually a very modern way of thinking to put things in neat little boxes. Life isn't that simple.

Nate - I have almost entirely ceased wanting to ca...

2008-03-07T06:55:00.000-08:00

Nate - I have almost entirely ceased wanting to call myself a Christian. There is so much baggage in that, and I feel no peace when I identify myself that way because the label has been so abused in my life. I definitely think "servant" is better.

I have been saying lately "Love God, Love others, follow The Carpenter." That's all there is to it.

More like a sledgehammer, some would say.

W...

2008-03-06T19:39:00.000-08:00

More like a sledgehammer, some would say.

What is difficult about the label, too, is the boundary it sets. "I'm a left-wing voter so therefore I can't have any right-wing ideas" etc. "Im emergent so what's that Calvinistic thought doing in there?" But all of those distinctions are only in a Western obsession with classifying everything so our own heads don't explode off into the ether.

What happens if the truth we are seeking contains 37% left-wing idea and 63% right-wing but we discount it because it's in an area we disagree with? It just turns us into rigid thinkers, methinks

When people ask my label, I say I am a servant. Wh...

2008-03-06T19:37:00.000-08:00

When people ask my label, I say I am a servant. When pressed, a servant of God. I will never define that, so as to create an expectation behind it. I like it that way.

Also, through my journey, I have found only two directives that cover everything. Love God, Love your neighbor. That's it. If we are doing those, I think we're good. And we can do those two, anywhere, at any time.

Lastly, please do not believe ever, that we have to DO something to gain approval, God already loves us. So feeling guilty that we are not like so and so, isn't really necessary. Plus, just remember Jonah, if God wants you somewhere, He WILL get you there somehow.

Sue - Heh! You are much more direct about it, but ...

2008-03-06T17:39:00.000-08:00

Sue - Heh! You are much more direct about it, but I agree with you. As soon as something is successful or popular, it gets a label. As soon as there a label, there are standards...then we have to live up to those standards if we want to claim the label. It's sad.

Cindy - I'm so glad it spoke to you. It is a diffi...

2008-03-06T17:37:00.000-08:00

Cindy - I'm so glad it spoke to you. It is a difficult subject to broach. When I wrote this I was so afraid people would misunderstand, but so far they seem to have "got" it.

Pam - You're right, purposeless does not equal apa...

2008-03-06T17:35:00.000-08:00

Pam - You're right, purposeless does not equal apathy. I love the ways you have approached the subject...yes, write a book!

And you're very welcome.

Thanks Jarred. Ken is definitely an exception. I t...

2008-03-06T17:33:00.000-08:00

Thanks Jarred. Ken is definitely an exception. I think he might be the first pastoral type I've known who has no agenda and nothing in it for himself. Pretty cool.

Babe, you KNOW I am right here with you. I hate a...

2008-03-06T14:35:00.000-08:00

Babe, you KNOW I am right here with you. I hate all of those labels. I don't class myself as emergent or anything else ... why do we have to so quickly shove labels on things and slap the title of a "movement" on everything? It drives me batty.

Sometimes I wonder too about our motives. How much of what we do is because we secretly think if we don't do something that God is gonna send us to hell or be angry with us, or whatever? Maybe he's not asking us to do anything. Maybe we need to learn to rest in him and his love and nothing else before we can get sent out ... and we don't seem to do such a good job of that.

Anywya, sorry to wax despondent. Labels just really jack me off, you know?

erin- thank you so much for writing this. i've bee...

2008-03-06T13:43:00.000-08:00

erin- thank you so much for writing this. i've been trying to figure out how to say it without sounding angry or bitter or selfish. you did a superb job. i'm likely to plagiarize. ;-)

seithman, thanks. i'm glad you read and connected ...

2008-03-06T12:22:00.000-08:00

seithman, thanks. i'm glad you read and connected to ken in my article. he is one of my heroes. for real. for a guy who does nothing special he sure is inspiring me to be a better person...