Comments on Decompressing Faith: Theology is for Nincompoops

It's very nice to meet you Kelly. Thank you for th...

2008-06-03T21:15:00.000-07:00

It's very nice to meet you Kelly. Thank you for the kind words...and I absolutely agree about it being more acceptable to be an addict than to question...why is that?

I look forward to visiting your blog...

Wow, great post. I am in the process of writing a ...

2008-06-03T20:28:00.000-07:00

Wow, great post. I am in the process of writing a post about why it seems to be more socially acceptable to become an addict rather than be honest about questions we have about our faith. Why is it that, if you are a seasoned believer, and you question something God is doing (or not doing in your life) - you are looked upon as being less of a witness.

I may contact you later, if it's okay, to use part of your post - giving you credit, of course.

Enjoying your blog....

Hi DrDan - For the first thing, I'm a sister, not ...

2008-05-14T12:02:00.000-07:00

Hi DrDan - For the first thing, I'm a sister, not a brother, LOL! But that's OK.

Anyhow, I appreciate all the time and thought you put into this response, but that's a lot to digest and I'm not entirely certain what your main point is. Any chance you could sum it up for me?

Dear brother - much of your honest pondering is wo...

2008-05-14T08:55:00.000-07:00

Dear brother - much of your honest pondering is worthy of thoughtful consideration. We all struggle with that question: If I give up on modern "christianity" will Jesus give up on me? That is a great question and it certainly reflects your desire to get to the heart of the matter.
My response is not to be judgemental in any way - cause quite frankly I do not believe such a posture is at all helpful to me or to anyone else. My response is to focus on what you said about Jesus' teaching focus. Theology, by its root is two greek words: Theos = God, and Logos = Word. Put them together and you have "a word about God" or a thinking process about God. Your blog is theology!
Jesus did center ALL of his teaching around two great commandments: Love God Supremely and Love Others as you love yourself. Any time someone loves - it seems to me that they have to make a choice. You can't love your wife and wish to have a faithful relationship with her and her have a faithful relationship with you without committing to HER as your choice. Once you make the choice and make the commitment you have drawn a boundary - right? You have said "This is my woman and I am her man." Right? That is what love does - it draws boundaries.
To say that I love God is to draw a boundary. No matter how much I might hate the institution of marriage - if I love a woman and want her to love me back then I am committing myself to an institution called "marriage". That is unless I want to have an "open" marriage in which my intimate love for that woman is shared with others and we're not "exclusive". To me that isn't real love. Its something else altogether. HOWEVER, if I love her truly and supremely then I have no problem giving up all others for her. Then comes the struggle! How can I have a marital relationship without a marriage? May I suggest that you can't! That is not a judgement - it seems to me to be an honest statement of reality. To say we have a relationship with Jesus Christ and not love what he loves, warts and all, is to be self-delusional. Whatever the "bride of Christ" is may be up for definition and discussion but the fact that there is a "bride of Christ" ought to mean something to any who would embrace faith in the Christ of that bride. Theology may well be for Nincompoops but any one who loves Jesus Christ is going to have struggle with "a word about God". And your article is theology! That is okay by the way - there are a lot of folks who believe that faith in Christ is for Nincompoops as well. I guess I am just another one of those nincompoops - because I desperately need the real Jesus Christ and I join you in the struggle to press toward the mark of the high calling of God in Christ.

Dan

Thanks Sue...I'm amazed someone is listening!

2008-05-12T16:26:00.000-07:00

Thanks Sue...I'm amazed someone is listening!

Nein. Not rambling at all.

2008-05-12T16:24:00.000-07:00

Nein. Not rambling at all.

Well, we already know I'm a heretic...I think in m...

2008-05-12T16:13:00.000-07:00

Well, we already know I'm a heretic...

I think in my very limited and biased experience, it's true that we do need somewhere to start from. I, however, have spent most of the last three years working hard at undoing the damage that much normative theology did to me. Far too many opinions, too many right/wrong arguments, and I found that the term "bible-beater" didn't come out of nowhere.

Instead, I found that pretty much every perspective could be argued from the Bible, one just needs to choose which arguments they are going to hold to and which they are against. Simple as that.

I suppose when all is said and done, I tend to mostly fall into the "none of the above" category.
But maybe my glass is just darker than others; I do continue to claim that possibility.

I guess also, in my (charismatic) ex-church, it wasn't so much the hard/fast theology that was the problem, it was the melange of arbitrary rules that I could never really grasp well enough to follow successfully. I don't know the term for that, so for lack of a better word, I say "theology", because even if the rules aren't based on true theological positions, they are treated as such (certain and deserving of obedience).

Blah blah blah...I'm rambling now.

I'm not a fan of the "I'm right and you're wrong" ...

2008-05-12T15:46:00.000-07:00

I'm not a fan of the "I'm right and you're wrong" mentality, not only because it causes unneccessary pain and division, but because we're all groping around in the dark. How can we finite beings presume to know everything about the infinite God? He's not bound by our categories, and never has been. However, a knowledge of theology can at least help us to know where to start when it comes to understanding God as much as we are able. We just need to be careful not to hold our beliefs too rigidly or dogmatically, as none of us can possibly grasp the whole truth.

You have nothing to apologise for, Erin. You didn't touch a nerve. I just wanted to give an alternative perspective. Especially as in my former church (Pentecostal, naturally) theology was pooh-poohed as useless. That's probably (actually, no - DEFINITELY) why things started going wrong there. Certain people didn't have enough respect for good theology and ended up embracing the more wacky and controlling side of things as a direct result of that.

Barry - It's true we all have a theology...I suppo...

2008-05-12T15:36:00.000-07:00

Barry - It's true we all have a theology...I suppose I ought to clarify that...but the problem I guess I'm talking about is who decides who has bad or good theology, anyway? There is the rub for me...the "I have it right and you have it wrong" mentality you mention. Especially because it's all entirely arbitrary depending on what Christian tradition one belongs to. Then there are people like me who don't fall into any of the clearly defined categories and struggle to find a place to belong outside of strict universalism, which I don't label myself as, either.

Anyhow, the nincompoops are those who wield their theology as a weapon against others. Especially against people like me who don't really have "good theology" as it is commonly understood.

But you, Barry, in my opinion, are not ugly with your theology. People like you are precisely the reason I chose to qualify my thoughts against theologians as being only directed at the mean people. Hope you can forgive me if I touched a nerve there.

Hey D, thanks for stopping by, I've seen you aroun...

2008-05-12T15:14:00.000-07:00

Hey D, thanks for stopping by, I've seen you around. I'll check out your site in a bit.

I guess simple is good for me, in that I've been too badly beaten up by those who think they know.

Also, one thing I've found in my own experience is...

2008-05-12T15:11:00.000-07:00

Also, one thing I've found in my own experience is that theology is not a fixed thing. My own views have changed drastically over the past decade or so, but I do try to work through the theological implications and base what I believe on the best information I can get about God, which in the main is contained in scripture. For me it's not a "there is one Truth and everyone who disagrees is going to hell" scenario.

I disagree with you thoughts about theology, Erin ...

2008-05-12T15:09:00.000-07:00

I disagree with you thoughts about theology, Erin - but then, as a theology graduate, I would :o)

Theology is inescapable if you follow Christ. Every believer has a theology. The only difference is whether it's good theology or poor theology. And by "good theology" I don't mean theology that agrees with mine. I love the fact that we can debate and discuss points of theology, end up disagreeing strongly and still regard each other as fellow-disciples at the end of it.

What I do have a huge issue with is those who misuse theology. We've all come across people who use it as a club to beat people into the ground. I would suggest that the problem there is not with theology, but with the way it's being (mis-)used.

That last line: sounds like you've hit on the actu...

2008-05-12T14:24:00.000-07:00

That last line: sounds like you've hit on the actual *good* part of the good news. Love. Community. Radical inclusion. It does seem that, traditionally understood, the good news seems like such bad news for sooooo many people.

Oh, and if you disagree with 90% of Christianity, I'd say that makes you a human, instead of an automaton. :) And it also means you'd fit in with the ilk on my blog, too. :)

Thanks for the post.

Aww, thanks Barbara. It's nothing special, just sp...

2008-05-12T14:01:00.000-07:00

Aww, thanks Barbara. It's nothing special, just spoken from the heart.

I made an "Erin" folder in my in box because I don...

2008-05-12T11:23:00.000-07:00

I made an "Erin" folder in my in box because I don't want to lose any of what you've been saying lately. Great stuff. Lots to think about.

Michelle - I realize that now, but at the time...y...

2008-05-12T09:41:00.000-07:00

Michelle - I realize that now, but at the time...yeah, it was of the devil. Like DaVinci Code.

Sara - I have never seen you wield theology agains...

2008-05-12T09:39:00.000-07:00

Sara - I have never seen you wield theology against others, though. So in that regard, I don't mind it. I'm so glad it is always expanding your image of God, that's how it's supposed to be.

Sue - You always know how to put things to make me...

2008-05-12T09:38:00.000-07:00

Sue - You always know how to put things to make me laugh. Yes, I agree. Interesting thing is Jesus tried so hard NOT to make it a religion and his followers couldn't help themselves.

Barb - Why, thank you. No, well, I guess it just c...

2008-05-12T09:36:00.002-07:00

Barb - Why, thank you. No, well, I guess it just comes when it comes, if I try to force the words I end up with gibberish.

My husband joined the Masons about two years ago. ...

2008-05-12T09:36:00.001-07:00

My husband joined the Masons about two years ago. He felt that he needed to keep in all under wraps since it's "of the devil". His purpose, among others, was to find out if what he was told about them was correct - evil, satan worship, etc. etc. Of course none of it's true. Just another example of ridiculous doctrine choking the life out of something worthwhile.

Michelle

Michelle - Yeah, that's one thing that drives me c...

2008-05-12T09:36:00.000-07:00

Michelle - Yeah, that's one thing that drives me crazy - the whole right/wrong thing between denominations, where no one can ever decide who really is right or wrong.

Katherine - I agree. I have found that to be true ...

2008-05-12T09:35:00.000-07:00

Katherine - I agree. I have found that to be true in my experience.

Susan - You can quote me anytime if you really are...

2008-05-12T09:34:00.000-07:00

Susan - You can quote me anytime if you really are so inclined. Anyhow, it's the truth.

Nate - Precisely. But at the time, I seriously was...

2008-05-12T09:33:00.000-07:00

Nate - Precisely. But at the time, I seriously wasn't sure.

Incidentally, a few years back when our son was in speech therapy, we were offered the chance to get the therapy for free from the Scottish Rite association. We rejected it on religious grounds, because it was the Masons. Foolish.

I will admit, I love theology. I'm an NT, we love...

2008-05-12T09:23:00.000-07:00

I will admit, I love theology. I'm an NT, we love to sytemize and define things . . . but my experience of theology has not been to shrink my understanding of God . . . rather, it seems the more that I "rightly" understand, the bigger, stranger and more wonderful I find God to be. Theology keeps exposing me to just how incredible, bizarre, incomprehensible, awe-some and wonderful God is . . . by conciously incrementally "defining" God as being beyond my human capabilities, understandings and comfort zones, I find that I keep growing into those definitions, which then keep expanding out beyond me, and I grow further . . . bewildering and wonderful cycle.