Comments on Mapless: Does Religion Matter?

Christopher - Barry tends to be more direct than I...

2011-07-24T05:08:49.546-07:00

Christopher - Barry tends to be more direct than I am, but I have to agree with what he said. I'm sure your intentions are good, but I was a bible-believing, born-again Christian for 30 years. You couldn't possibly tell me anything I don't already know. You couldn't possibly have experience of god that I haven't been sure I had, as well. I thank you for caring, and I'm sure that your concern for Barry and I is real, but I'd rather not continue this conversation.

Wow, Erin - he came back! Christopher, you do ...

2011-07-24T03:40:59.168-07:00
Wow, Erin - he came back!

Christopher, you do not love us. You don't even know us, so to say that you love us is ridiculous. The problem here is that you obviously aren't interested in our backgrounds. you only want to convert us. If you were actually interested enough in us as individual human beings you might read a bit more of both our blogs and realise that actually, both of us spent a significant amount of our lives believing exactly as you do - born again, on fire for God, the whole nine yards.

Personally, I spent more than 20 years as a Christian. I believed it with all my heart, I had faith, I even went to seminary to study theology. I preached, I prayed, I lived it. Then gradually I realised that faith is nothing more than believing things for no good reason, and that there is absolutely no evidence that God exists. There is plenty of evidence that I exist, but for God, who is supposedly so much greater, the evidence that should be there is entirely lacking. Therefore it seems clear to me that there is no God.

It's not good enough to say that it's a matter of faith, and that evidence doesn't matter. Before you put your faith in something, it makes sense to be certain that it actually exists first. I could put my faith in Shiva or Vishnu or Allah, but I'm sure you'll agree that such faith would be misplaced. What makes your god so different? There is no more evidence that he is real than there is that Shiva is real.

Please don't tell us to have faith. We did, and it was worthless. Please don't tell us to call on the Lord - both of us did that many, many times but he didn't answer. Why? Because he is imaginary.

Now please take special note of this next point, Christopher. If you are willing to have an open-minded discussion about Christianity and atheism (in other words, if you are willing to admit that you may be wrong if the evidence shows that, just as I am), you are very welcome both here and on my blog. If, however, you are just going to insist that you have the only Truth and try to convert people, all you will achieve is to irritate. If that's your intention, please do us all a favour and stop posting here.

Over to you.

Barry,I recollect there was a time when I repented...

2011-07-24T01:15:56.387-07:00
Barry,I recollect there was a time when I repented of my sins and invited Jesus into my heart,etc, but nothing happened to me as you put it "You can pray until you're blue in the face". BUT just because nothing happened, I did not stop there. I immediately met the preacher (whose message I heard) and told him that nothing happened. He told me one thing and that really changed my life for ever. He asked me, "where did you intvite Jesus into" . I told him "into my heart". Then he said,"Believe that your heart is not empty anymore and that Jesus is in your heart and keep thanking Him for coming into your heart" (I later realised that this faith was what was lacking in me ). When I did just that, I became a changed man. Please try this.

Erin and Barry, I love you both and I wish all goo...

2011-07-24T00:09:58.821-07:00
Erin and Barry, I love you both and I wish all good. BUT please call upon Lord Jesus Christ and you will not be disappointed. Please understand that this is a matter of faith and hence, the question of "defend their beliefs against intelligent opposition" as put by Barry, does not arise.

I don't know if it's always intended
2011-07-06T13:53:50.079-07:00
I don't know if it's always intended to seem cowardly...I really think they just want to "spread the good news". But, yeah, cowardly.

Yeah, we get a lot of that at exchristian.net as w...

2011-07-06T13:06:58.739-07:00
Yeah, we get a lot of that at exchristian.net as well. People who are only too ready to preach but not to stick around and defend their beliefs against intelligent opposition. Seems a bit cowardly to me.

I'm pretty sure that was drive-by evangelism, ...

2011-07-06T12:25:23.053-07:00
I'm pretty sure that was drive-by evangelism, Barry. But thanks for backing me up.

Christopher: do you really think Erin doesn't ...

2011-07-06T11:58:39.116-07:00
Christopher: do you really think Erin doesn't know all about Christianity, or that she has never done the whole "repent, believe, ask God into your heart, live for him, get filled with the Spirit" thing? I assure you she did, as did I. It was found wanting.

Sorry, Christopher, but your God does not exist. There is not one single shred of evidence to suggest that he does. You can pray until you're blue in the face - the only "answers" you'll ever get are coincidences that would have happened whether or not you prayed.

The idea that every nonbeliever has an emptiness or a God-shaped hole in their heart is simply false. I have been a pagan, a Christian and an atheist, and I can tell you two things. Firstly, paganism and Christianity both elicit the same "inner witness" or nice feelings that you're on the right path. Secondly, that atheism and acceptance that we're on our own with no heavenly father to watch our backs has actually, in my case, given me much more inner peace and happiness than either paganism or Christianity ever did.

Uh, thanks for sharing, Christopher. No thanks, th...

2011-07-06T11:55:40.599-07:00
Uh, thanks for sharing, Christopher. No thanks, though.

My name is Christopher. I come from a Christian fa...

2011-07-06T11:27:30.716-07:00
My name is Christopher. I come from a Christian family. Way back, after finishing my schooling and when I was doing my Intermediate (junior college), I sensed a kind of emptiness in my heart. (This emptiness, which I later-on understood, was God’s way of drawing me to Himself). In my desperate attempts to solve this problem, I found myself bunking college and attending Christian meetings and visiting Christian bookshop with the hope of finding a solution. During one such visit to a Christian bookshop, I came across a small book-let titled; Tell me plainly, how to be saved. Through this book-let (written according to the Bible), I have understood that every human-being is a sinner and is bound to go to hell after one’s time on this planet-earth is over. But God’s great love for man-kind made Him send His only son, Jesus Christ, into this world. Jesus, who lived a sin-less life, suffered an account of our sins and died on the cross in our place. He rose again from death the third day and is now in the midst of us in the form of the Holy Spirit. Whoever believes in Him will become a child of God and will skip hell to enter heaven, the presence of the Almighty God.

The book-let went-on to say that the way of believing in Jesus Christ is by repenting of our sins and asking Jesus for forgiveness for our sins as only the blood of Jesus Christ has the power to cleanse us from every kind of sin. Then we should invite Jesus into our hearts. When I did all this, the emptiness in my heart left and the love, joy & peace which I never had till then filled my heart. Since then, the Lord has been wonderfully leading me and has never left me alone, as per His promise in the Bible for all those who come to him in faith. He gave a purpose for my living. Whatever I have been going through in life, I can say with all confidence, that there was never a time that I felt or was left helpless; this is so as one of the precious promises in the Bible says: “Even lions go hungry for lack of food, but those who obey the LORD lack nothing good.”

This is how the Lord has sought me, forgave my sins, made me His child, gave me a purpose for living, has been meeting all my needs and put His peace & joy in my heart that no person or experience or circumstance or problem can take it away.

It’s a Biblical fact that every person has a heart with a God-shaped vacuum and nothing can fill that vacuum, except God Himself. This is why we need to invite Jesus to come into our hearts after repenting of our sins.

The one decision I will never regret is, giving my heart to the Lord Jesus Christ. I hope and wish that you also will make a decision to make Jesus Christ your personal Lord and Savior. If so, please say this prayer meaningfully from your heart:

Lord Jesus Christ, I believe that you are the Almighty God. Thank you for suffering on the cross for my sake. I now repent of all my sins. Forgive me of my sins. Cleanse me with your precious blood. Come into my heart, Lord Jesus and make me your child. From now on, I will read the Bible regularly and obey what it says. In Jesus’ name, I pray. Amen.

If you have made a decision to follow the Lord Jesus Christ, please let me know the good news. Thanks. May you know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

Thanks Katherine!

2010-09-06T16:52:28.093-07:00
Thanks Katherine!

Erin to Manuela.... Yes, exactly. Sigh. Erin Than...

2010-09-05T18:04:41.420-07:00
Erin to Manuela.... Yes, exactly. Sigh.

Erin Thank you for the kind words. :-)
It is good to see you all again, too.

Hi Manuela - I think any aspect of any religion th...

2010-08-25T10:03:53.200-07:00
Hi Manuela - I think any aspect of any religion that causes people to be unkind, abusive, controlling, or violent is clearly not of God.

I agree that "God" can mean and be so ma...

2010-08-23T19:12:28.738-07:00
I agree that "God" can mean and be so many different things to different people. So I hesitate to use that term at times. When I do do, I'm referring to Jesus, and who he demonstrated him/ her to be, so contrary to most all of what religion is all about. I do agree that the reality of kindness and genuine care is the only manifestation of true spiritual power. Every thing else is "whatever" to me as well.

Lorena - I completely get it about old posts. I am...

2010-07-28T20:23:41.832-07:00
Lorena - I completely get it about old posts. I am the same way. I don't even recognize myself when I started this blog 5 years ago, but I decided to leave it all intact so I could see the journey, and remind myself of what I want never to go back to. And what you said, about hoping that someone would see themselves in it and be encouraged.

Katherine, wow I'm glad to see you! I agree c...

2010-07-28T20:21:13.235-07:00
Katherine, wow I'm glad to see you!

I agree completely. It's all pieces of the same puzzle, and it's up to each of us to find the way. Wasting time arguing about theology or whatever when we could be doing good in the world...it completely misses the point.

Glad (and thankful) to know you've been readin...

2010-07-28T19:10:53.783-07:00
Glad (and thankful) to know you've been reading my blog, Erin. You'll find some very neurotic pieces there, but that's were I was then.I've left them, because I ain't perfect and I figure that my imperfect journey may help somebody.

Hmm... Ian articulated things well. I have come t...

2010-07-28T17:50:13.064-07:00
Hmm... Ian articulated things well.

I have come to the place where I view religion as a purely manmade things for the controling of men... I find myself in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with the words (if not the heart) of Vladimir Lenin when he said tate religion was the opiate of the masses. I think religion's purpose is to control people and, ultimately, to try and control God.

There is a verse in Isaiah that has been resonating with me for several years now... keeps reverberating and re-afirming itself... I think it's Isaiah 45:6... God talking to Isaiah "To whom would you compare me, the incomparable? Can you picture me without reducing me?" No matter what race or culture or religious background, any attempt by any human to picture God inevitably only produces a partial picture of him... reducing him to managalbe protions....

You know what, Kari? It comes and goes. I will go ...

2010-07-26T20:16:51.425-07:00
You know what, Kari? It comes and goes. I will go through a spell of a month or two where I'm deeply sorting...and then months of nothing. I think it's a process, like anything. Two steps forward, one step back.

I don't pretend to know anything more than anyone else...except what works for ME. But if my ramblings inspire you in your own search, then I'm glad.

Erin, I'm so glad you are unraveling it all be...

2010-07-26T18:31:40.728-07:00
Erin, I'm so glad you are unraveling it all because I don't have the motivation or energy to do that right now! I long for the ability to really search these things out and think about them, but the best I can do for the moment is to follow along, and I so appreciate your journey and your thoughts and challenges and questions :) Every time I begin to try to rationalize or make sense of most of what I was taught (and is still ingrained) about God, it gets so frustrating, I get so lost, and I've just had to be ok with letting it go until there is time and energy. So...for now, I live in a state of limbo.

I read a few of your earlier posts just to see whe...

2010-07-26T18:30:10.497-07:00
I read a few of your earlier posts just to see where you were coming from, and found that I can relate to many of your experiences. It's always encouraging to me to find people who have come from a similar place and have arrived at similar conclusions as I have.

It's very nice to meet you and I look forward to reading more of your posts!

And I do agree about change. Whatever is this notion that faith isn't supposed to change? Who came up with that rule?

Glad to know that you agree! I'd like to belie...

2010-07-26T18:12:18.119-07:00
Glad to know that you agree! I'd like to believe that I change constantly. I heard once that when Michael Angelo, in his old age, was asked when he learned to be such a wonderful artist he responded,
"I am still learning."

Hi Lorena! I was just checking out your blog and s...

2010-07-26T13:48:46.938-07:00
Hi Lorena! I was just checking out your blog and something you said on the "about" page really caught me..."Look at my archives and you will see the progress of my de-conversion from anger and turmoil to self-respect and free thinking."

That made me laugh (at myself!) because it's entirely true of me. I hate to think someone is reading my archives...because I've evolved so far from where I was when I began 5 years ago.

Anyhow, in response to your comment, I'm OK with the baby changing...which I wouldn't have said a few years ago. Today I get much more fulfillment out of the evolution of my spirituality than to just park myself somewhere and call it good.

I agree with everything you said!

I have nothing to add, Kari...those are great thou...

2010-07-26T13:39:05.505-07:00
I have nothing to add, Kari...those are great thoughts.

I think in my journey I have probably become the thing that so many people warned me against...but doesn't bother me a bit. I have chosen to intellectualize religion...in the sense that if it doesn't MAKE sense...well, I can't embrace it. I'm still unraveling what that thing is that does make sense...but I think I'm getting closer.

However, I'm finally at a point where I hav...

2010-07-26T13:37:37.068-07:00
However, I'm finally at a point where I have chosen not to throw the baby out...it's just a different baby.

And the baby will keep changing, Erin. When you look at the baby next year it will be a completely different one.

I like that you don't want to label yourself. It's a good thing, because it allows you to keep thinking and growing. Your truth will never resemble anyone else's, because the rest of us haven't had your life and your thoughts. So might as well keep yourself from trying to adjust your thinking to anyone else's and from expecting that others will agree with you.

It is a lonely journey, but at least it's truthful.

It is possible that at some point you will start identifying with some group or another. Who knows?

Comments on Mapless: Does Religion Matter?

Christopher - Barry tends to be more direct than I...

Wow, Erin - he came back! Christopher, you do ...

Barry,I recollect there was a time when I repented...

Erin and Barry, I love you both and I wish all goo...

I don't know if it's always intended 2011-07-06T13:53:50.079-07:00 I don't know if it's always intended to seem cowardly...I really think they just want to "spread the good news". But, yeah, cowardly.

Yeah, we get a lot of that at exchristian.net as w...

I'm pretty sure that was drive-by evangelism, ...

Christopher: do you really think Erin doesn't ...

Uh, thanks for sharing, Christopher. No thanks, th...

My name is Christopher. I come from a Christian fa...

Thanks Katherine!

Erin to Manuela.... Yes, exactly. Sigh. Erin Than...

Hi Manuela - I think any aspect of any religion th...

I agree that "God" can mean and be so ma...

Lorena - I completely get it about old posts. I am...

Katherine, wow I'm glad to see you! I agree c...

Glad (and thankful) to know you've been readin...

Hmm... Ian articulated things well. I have come t...

You know what, Kari? It comes and goes. I will go ...

Erin, I'm so glad you are unraveling it all be...

I read a few of your earlier posts just to see whe...

Glad to know that you agree! I'd like to belie...

Hi Lorena! I was just checking out your blog and s...

I have nothing to add, Kari...those are great thou...

However, I'm finally at a point where I hav...

I don't know if it's always intended
2011-07-06T13:53:50.079-07:00
I don't know if it's always intended to seem cowardly...I really think they just want to "spread the good news". But, yeah, cowardly.