Comments on Decompressing Faith: Magazinial Outreach?

And I'm tired and didn't carry out my thought in t...

2007-11-16T23:57:00.000-08:00

And I'm tired and didn't carry out my thought in the second paragraph....

Having big church buildings led by one person makes sure we will stay true to the important things like correct doctrine and right theology (which are more important than following Jesus Himself), so we have to trust a well educated leader to keep us in line....so we're not led astray as so many fear will happen in "house churches" (more like what you described)...where people might tend to have more of a free and less structured faith. Which to most Christians is still a bad thing.

Steve - CLB is christianese for Church-left-behind...

2007-11-16T23:44:00.000-08:00

Steve - CLB is christianese for Church-left-behind. It's shorthand all us church-leavers use to identify the church we left.

I love what you said about "material stuff" because it is so true. I think maybe we could learn a lot from the more "organic" communities Pagans tend to have. I think it could be...and correct me if I'm wrong because I know little about such things...maybe Pagans have already accepted that people relate to Divinity in different ways...but Christians can't accept that people relate to Jesus in different ways...so they are forever trying to be organized - trying to be true to correct doctrine and all...

I don't know where the building thing came from...I suppose because the Jews had temples and synagogues and Jesus and his disciples preached in them so I guess it stuck as a format...even though they preached more in people's homes and in fields and in the streets.

Anyhow, your insight cracks me up...nothing like an objective perspective. But it's so true. The original post I mentioned at the beginning showed how my CLB with a 6 million dollar annual budget managed to spend less than 10% on "outreach" and "missions" (real life helping people). The rest went to buildings and programs and salaries....etc. Sigh. And they wonder why I won't go back...

I appreciate your thoughts.

Chris - Thanks! I'll read it as soon as I can.

2007-11-16T23:11:00.000-08:00

Chris - Thanks! I'll read it as soon as I can.

Interesting thoughts. I have no idea what a CLB i...

2007-11-16T23:01:00.000-08:00

Interesting thoughts. I have no idea what a CLB is. I assume some church entity. I haven't been to a church for quite some time. Not for any actual service that wasn't funeral or wedding related, which alters things.

We don't tend to have projectors or screens. We don't tend to even have buildings that aren't our own homes. We gather together to supply the basics and generally worship without electronic media (although sometimes a cd player provides nice back up music when the instrumentally inclined people didn't show). We also don't take up a collection or tithe, as we have no paid clergy or building to maintain.

As such, while there is the question we like to throw around "have you ever met a rich pagan?", we have kept food cupboards open for years. Nothing so massive as the churches have done, but they are there, just from the gifts of the individuals.

It makes me wonder where your tithing might go if more of the material were sacrificed. One is a small number when I look at it, and then look at my bible (sorry if it offends you folks, but I own several and read them regularly) and I wonder what these megachurches are doing. Sure, they need huge screens and power point presentations, just like Jesus had. Sure, they need massive buildings with starbucks and mcdonalds in them, just like Jesus had. Sure they need priests and reverends, lectures and deacons and all of the rest to be raking in a paycheck in exchange for their faith, just like Jesus did.

Frankly, if you look at the above, I have no idea where you will come up with the money for the poor after all.

Erin - definitely late but figured I'd still try t...

2007-11-16T19:29:00.000-08:00

Erin - definitely late but figured I'd still try to join in :)

Maybe not so much about the church, but hopefully still relevant enough:

Money and Me

Randy - Two things even better, but let's not ask ...

2007-11-16T16:49:00.000-08:00

Randy - Two things even better, but let's not ask too much.

I agree about the screens. I never got that. They are right next to the other two, just BIGGER. Whatever. We need our Pastor to be 20 feet tall.

Paul - Thanks.

2007-11-16T16:47:00.000-08:00

Paul - Thanks.

I vote for two things ;-) The one that got me was...

2007-11-16T10:48:00.000-08:00

I vote for two things ;-) The one that got me was when they installed those massive projection screens. They already had two large screens that are easy to see from the back row, but no that wasn't good enough...we "needed" two more screens, reaching nearly floor to ceiling (30 feet tall?). They're so big they give me motion sickness, but if I knew how much they cost I'd be even more sick.

Impress people, or help people?

Y.A.H.

yes, good idea to change one bad habbit at a time ...

2007-11-16T07:45:00.000-08:00

yes, good idea to change one bad habbit at a time :)

Thanks Cindy. You're not late...everyone else was ...

2007-11-15T21:02:00.000-08:00

Thanks Cindy. You're not late...everyone else was early ;-)

sorry for being so late. i couldn't agree more wit...

2007-11-15T17:53:00.000-08:00

sorry for being so late. i couldn't agree more with your post. well said.

Julie - I like your questions...you often bring up...

2007-11-15T14:55:00.000-08:00

Julie - I like your questions...you often bring up things others don't think of. It was a good question.

Thanks Sonja, it has been interesting. I think one...

2007-11-15T14:54:00.000-08:00

Thanks Sonja, it has been interesting. I think one thing is better than nothing, for sure.

Thanks for clarifying. For some reason today I am...

2007-11-15T14:51:00.000-08:00

Thanks for clarifying. For some reason today I am in a mood to ask those "but what about...?" questions. :)

Wow, the original post was pretty amazing. And, I...

2007-11-15T14:30:00.000-08:00

Wow, the original post was pretty amazing.

And, I like this one too.

Very interesting to see where your journey with God has taken you. I also like your suggestions about Just One ... it really resonates with me.

Jarred - Thanks for the compliment. I think this i...

2007-11-15T12:09:00.000-08:00

Jarred - Thanks for the compliment. I think this is something some of us (Christian types) are learning...we shouldn't create programs or evangelistic styles designed to "save" people - because then (and this drives me nuts) they become a commodity - rather than a person - and Jesus' mandate to us is not really about salvation anyhow, it's about making people's lives better. At least that's my thought on it.

Erin: Not particularly no. Unless one or two of ...

2007-11-15T11:54:00.000-08:00

Erin: Not particularly no. Unless one or two of them made me more cynical. But I'm sure that wasn't the intended change. ;)

And I hardly consider your thoughts drivel!

Kathy - I know you get it ;-) I see people like yo...

2007-11-15T11:53:00.000-08:00

Kathy - I know you get it ;-)

I see people like you guys and the Bridge really impacting so many people with so minuscule of a budget, and then I see my CLB and churches like it with their 6 million dollar budgets and how little tangible impact is made, and I can't help but wonder. My CLB, in the last budget I saw, spent about 8% (of $6 mil.) on actual outreach - the rest on buildings, programs, salaries and the like. That's not even a tithe. :-0

I know a machine needs to support itself, and many people are dependent on it, and like Julie said, even people's jobs...but I think changing one thing is doable.

Barbara - I hear ya. I definitly think there are t...

2007-11-15T11:48:00.000-08:00

Barbara - I hear ya. I definitly think there are times when a church or ministry needs to release printed materials...but one thing I forgot to mention in my post is this church ALSO puts out a monthly 4-6 page magazine - full color, glossy all that jazz. Talk about redundant media.

But if big churches with huge budgets could find one expense they could quit and dedicate it to helping people, that would be cool.

ah, my friend, i know this all too well. the mini...

2007-11-15T11:45:00.000-08:00

ah, my friend, i know this all too well. the ministry machine at its finest. it makes me crazy. and i have been caught on the other end of it, too, where i thought it was so cool that our church did x or y. now i see it so differently. the consumer church is an industry in and of itself. the waste is unbelievable. i have seen it upclose and personal and to see how much $ gets spend on "show" and how many goes to helping people. yeah, a pretty huge disparity in most church machines. i always say the refuge could fund itself from the money a lot of churches spend on spilled coffee. imagine what we could do with a magazine budget!!

yeah, keep us in the synchroblog loop so i can know what the topics are.

I could not agree more and think this is an excell...

2007-11-15T11:39:00.000-08:00

I could not agree more and think this is an excellent idea. I feel the same way when I see things here where I work that ares so expensive to produce and I wonder WHY? Why are we spending all this money to promote people giving money. I mean seriously, the amount of time, paper, postage, ink, etc. that goes into some of our elaborate "maketking pieces" that I KNOW end up in the trash, makes me nauseous.
We're not a church but we are a ministry so it sort of is the same, I think.

Love your thoughts!

Paul - Thanks very much for reading the original p...

2007-11-15T10:33:00.000-08:00

Paul - Thanks very much for reading the original post. I was having an attitude the day I wrote it, but I think if you can get past the attitude, it's a good post.

Julie - Well in this case it's a magazine produced...

2007-11-15T10:32:00.000-08:00

Julie - Well in this case it's a magazine produced by existing church staff, with articles and photos submitted by church members, and printing is paid for out of the church's general fund (which is supported by tithes) - there isn't any advertising in it. So I don't think anyone is going to lose their job over it.

But that is a good point, thanks for bringing it up. I maybe should have been clearer about that.

Pam - Thanks. You are right. How can big churches ...

2007-11-15T10:28:00.000-08:00

Pam - Thanks. You are right. How can big churches manage their resources best? Maybe by helping out smaller churches who have no resources?

Jarred - What, you mean you're life hasn't been ch...

2007-11-15T10:27:00.000-08:00

Jarred - What, you mean you're life hasn't been changed by church outreach programs? ;-)

Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate you reading my drivel!