tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post1960105678479223369..comments2008-03-11T15:05:13.806-07:00Erinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01067954787472463337noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-47871151059685817592008-03-11T15:05:00.000-07:002008-03-11T15:05:00.000-07:00Tina - <I>"I'll take the risk of liberty over comfortable imprisonment"</I> Amen!Erinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01067954787472463337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-18198624341659341652008-03-11T10:17:00.000-07:002008-03-11T10:17:00.000-07:00That's cool. I'm glad you have begun to see past the institution, out in the wild, where our view of God is less hindered, more dangerous, and intimate. I'll take the risk of liberty any day over comfortable imprisonment.tinatina.gasperson.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-90581425630125287712008-01-25T19:18:00.000-08:002008-01-25T19:18:00.000-08:00Hi Emily - Very nice to meet you! <BR/><BR/>I haven't got to that part yet...working on it...but it's not so much about what those things are for me as it is about the spirit of freedom for each person individually, as Jesus wants them to be.<BR/><BR/>As an example, I got tattoos. They are something I have wanted all of my adult life. They are meaningful and spiritual...and previously "forbidden".Erinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01067954787472463337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-78401031612247674142008-01-25T19:04:00.000-08:002008-01-25T19:04:00.000-08:00Erin:<BR/><BR/>I'm completely new to your blog--so glad I found it! Please tell me that you're planning to get more specific about how this freedom looks. <BR/><BR/>What has Jesus called you into? I am very curious. What are the "forbidden" delights you enjoy that would invite the shock and envy of the Better Christian Woman? Perhaps I just can't find the right previous post!<BR/><BR/>Thanks. . .Emilyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06527885698216428320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-28696513378327111382008-01-24T21:52:00.000-08:002008-01-24T21:52:00.000-08:00Happy - Please quote all you want. I am so encouraged to know I'm not the only one who has endured this journey. I would love to hear more about your experience in it.<BR/><BR/>I'm so glad I have people to share in this with me...it makes it so much easier.Erinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01067954787472463337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-9822079121115512052008-01-24T21:46:00.000-08:002008-01-24T21:46:00.000-08:00Erin, thank you so much for this post - and the one on pressure-cookers... I've been in the process of coming to terms with <A HREF="http://afundamentalshift.blogspot.com/2007/05/on-coming-to-terms-with-my-inner-donna.html" REL="nofollow">My Inner Donna Reed</A> for almost a year now, and still trying to figure out what to do about her. :) Coming across your posts here was perfect timing; I'm walking through some tough things in my own life right now and a really good (guy) friend pretty much opted out of this leg of the journey simply because of our gender differences, and I was still reeling from the intensity of what I felt about that when I read your posts. Still thinking through a lot - but if you don't mind me quoting you and linking back to your blog, I may write a bit about this myself over the weekend.... Anyway, thanks. :)Happyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18060152095194610475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-67070676377999523132008-01-24T08:33:00.000-08:002008-01-24T08:33:00.000-08:00Nate - Barry said he might post on that and you should too. I don't claim that it's only true of women, that's just my paradigm...and I would love to hear more about the other side.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the encouragement on this.Erinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01067954787472463337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-81164246447386856502008-01-24T08:03:00.000-08:002008-01-24T08:03:00.000-08:00WOW!! Spewing forth some truly heroic stuff here. God has found your niche for you. Reaching the disaffected women of the world.<BR/><BR/>As Barry and I stated on one of the last posts, that this is rampant in male circles as well. It seems to me the denominal "EXPECTATIONS" that are placed on women, are too often from the OLD TESTAMENT, and the OLD COVENANT, versus the NEW TESTAMENT, and the NEW COVENANT. When Paul speaks of submitting to husbands in Colossians and Ephesians, he also tells the Men to treat their wives as their own bodies. And to love them as Christ loves the church. This places a heavy burden upon the husband, as well as the wife. It is a double teaching that is intertwined. For while supposing to be the leader, he can not abuse that leadership. If he does, then he is outside of God's dictates. That means that the wife is then not bound by that either. She should not be the long suffering wife that continues to extol the virtues of submissiveness, when the other half of the relationship God expects to be there is gone. The thing I like about Paul's teachings so much, is that it puts men and women on almost equal ground. For a man to be in God's will, he must pay attention to the wifes advice as she is the closest counselor. To uphold her self respect and dignity. To make sure she gets rest when tired. And to help in the running of the house. Be it with kids, chores, or other things. These should be decided together and agreed upon, for the sake of peace in the house. But all should be shared as if of one body, and one spirit.<BR/><BR/>Sorry to rant, but talking of emancipation of the spiritual enslaved fires my blood. It makes me very happy.Natehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11286219824281974297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-73766119028401879702008-01-24T07:17:00.000-08:002008-01-24T07:17:00.000-08:00Hey Don - I appreciate your honesty with me here. <BR/><BR/>My writing can only be from personal experience, so yes, my perspective is limited in that way and I know my statements don't apply to everyone. I often make that disclaimer, I just didn't this time.<BR/><BR/>However, I have had discussions with a number of Christian women about these same things; women whose experiences are in many different churches and many different denominations. Also, I served in women's ministry in a large church for 5 years. It really does seem to be widespread. <BR/><BR/>I don't mean this directed personally at you because I can't know...but to address one of your comments, I do believe that it's often the husbands who don't realize how their wives really feel. My husband believed I was truly happy with the way things were, he never would have told you otherwise. However, it wasn't true, ad I don't fault him, I was just good at making it seem so.<BR/><BR/>The Bible studies I'm referring to are readily available at Lifeway, so I assure you, they are Christian.<BR/><BR/>It does sound to me like you have experienced tremendous freedom, and I encourage you to share it with others. More people need to know Christ has a stronger grip on us than we think.<BR/><BR/>If these statements I have made don't apply to your wife or the people you know, I believe you are probably in a very healthy church environment and I'm glad to hear it. However, there are many churches which do teach women they must achieve high standards in order to be considered to be Godly women, standards we can't possibly meet.<BR/><BR/>Thank you very much for your words of encouragement, I do appreciate it, as well as your honesty with me about your perspective.Erinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01067954787472463337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-40410291001272825822008-01-24T06:55:00.000-08:002008-01-24T06:55:00.000-08:00"There is rampant depression and worthlessness among Christian women." ---I don't know which "Christian women" you're referring to, but that is a harsh blanket statement to make.<BR/><BR/>"Every women's bible study, ministry event and leader only told us that in order to be Godly women we must have an immaculate home, well-behaved children, a fit body, a sexually gratified husband, classy taste in clothes, be a gracious hostess, and serve the church willingly; all the while having at least an hour per day of "quiet time with the Lord". <BR/>---Once again, you are reading Bible studies that are NOT Christian. None of the many Bible studies that I have done with my wife have said ANY of the things you've stated above. I'm worried that you are making HUGE blanket statements, not necessarily true ones, to enhance the point you want to make later on in your article.<BR/><BR/>"Maybe if women could be free to be the women they are and not the women they are scolded, shamed and shushed into being, this depression would lift?" ---I pray that you are able to find an honest to goodness Christian church, one that encourages women (and men) to think independently, hold their heads up high, and find personal worth in who they are in Christ.<BR/><BR/>"Christians fear freedom because they don't know where it leads." --- I highly disagree, Erin. I LONG for freedom that Christ has brought me. The freedom to question; the freedom to ask Why?; the freedom to explore who I am in Christ. Jesus, Himself, said "Know the truth, and the truth will SET YOU FREE." It has set me free.<BR/><BR/>"...how many Christians long to experience the freedoms of the secular world, even as they curse those same things?" ---Neither myself, or my wife, "long for the freedoms of the secular world", but rather, we strive constantly to show the secular world the freedom that has been granted us in Christ Jesus. This last year has been an eye-opener for me, in that I finally discovered who I am. My entire life has been spent trying to define who I was based on what others said about me, how they treated me, etc. My true freedom has been found in the simple realization that who I am is not defined by others, but by God and Christ. I am one of God's truly beloved! Amazing! I am worthy (enough) that God allowed his only Son to die, to save ME from an eternity separate from him. How much more value confirmation do I need? Not much. I am literally riding on cloud 9 since my awakening moment about a year ago. My only prayer is that I can share this joy that I have with others. It lifted me from a pit of depression and anxiety, and it can do the same for others too.<BR/><BR/>"There is nothing to fear in freedom, as long as we take Christ there with us. Sometimes I think people fear that Jesus can't go there with them. I promise, He is able to breathe even in the real world. He will never allow us out of His reach, so stretch and be yourself. You will be so much happier for it." --- This paragraph is written so well! I encourage others to read it over and over and over. Hold your heads high, not out of feelings of superiority, but out of honor and dignity in who you are. You can know that the Creator of the Universe loves YOU! Humbling, and amazing, at the same time.<BR/><BR/>I love reading your blog posts. They are offering hope to so many. My only qualm is that "other Christians" are all lumped together in one hopeless mass of oppression. Please trust me, it is not that way.<BR/><BR/>Sincerely grateful,<BR/><BR/>DonB!DonB!http://www.blogger.com/profile/04295209230297561226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-11679317086017790052008-01-23T17:49:00.000-08:002008-01-23T17:49:00.000-08:00Joy - I'm glad this spoke to you.<BR/><BR/>My parents always watched the Sonny/Cher show, I think...at least I have memories of it from somewhere.Erinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01067954787472463337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-63858430786896890412008-01-23T17:38:00.000-08:002008-01-23T17:38:00.000-08:00Erin,<BR/><BR/>Everything is in such a shambles here... this was perfect. Just what I needed to hear!<BR/><BR/>Thanks!<BR/><BR/>PS: I grew up with Cher!! My mom LOVED Sonny and Cher!Joyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06049357117023462480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-27557402984325514252008-01-23T17:21:00.001-08:002008-01-23T17:21:00.001-08:00I meant BARRY...I'm the queen of typos.Erinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01067954787472463337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-21775568114971021092008-01-23T17:21:00.000-08:002008-01-23T17:21:00.000-08:00Barr - Thanks! I think it would be awesome if you want to address the male perspective. It does need to be said.Erinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01067954787472463337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-85154882352899835712008-01-23T16:39:00.000-08:002008-01-23T16:39:00.000-08:00Thanks for yet another insightful post. This theme really does need exposing and exploring. If I get time later this week, I might do a similar post about the "Perfect Christian Man Syndrome" I mentioned in my comments on your last post, as it's a related phenomenon.Barryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18344399473884127122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-36778336629072700192008-01-23T11:03:00.000-08:002008-01-23T11:03:00.000-08:00Pam - You weren't supposed to Google it. I meant off the top of your head!<BR/><BR/>Kuffs was the one I had in mind.Erinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01067954787472463337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-44484476854038492212008-01-23T11:02:00.000-08:002008-01-23T11:02:00.000-08:00Ché - I', glad this is insightful for you. <BR/><BR/>There is a big difference between permissible and beneficial, but I think we too often avoid the permissible and beneficial in order to avoid the <I>potential</I> that something might NOT be beneficial. Does that make any sense?Erinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01067954787472463337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-53509708813183918332008-01-23T10:57:00.000-08:002008-01-23T10:57:00.000-08:00Maria - I agree there has to be some idol smashing. I want to be valued for my contribution to peoples lives, not for how clean my house is.Erinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01067954787472463337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-82061809650900018392008-01-23T10:55:00.000-08:002008-01-23T10:55:00.000-08:00Donna - You crack me up. I have no idea what to do with myself!Erinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01067954787472463337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-5465280713250367642008-01-23T10:54:00.000-08:002008-01-23T10:54:00.000-08:00Kathy - I don't even pretend to know what could happen here...but I'm excited to see! I hope the vision held by people like us catches on.Erinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01067954787472463337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-35555174485713732312008-01-23T10:53:00.000-08:002008-01-23T10:53:00.000-08:00Hanan - It was great to meet you, too. I got your blog addy from Pam and am planning to check in there today. Thanks for the book recommend - I'll check it out.Erinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01067954787472463337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-21570787641058486712008-01-23T10:52:00.000-08:002008-01-23T10:52:00.000-08:00Abmo - I do agree that it's a combination problem, with both men and women being a part of it.Erinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01067954787472463337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-45678466194451315082008-01-23T09:51:00.000-08:002008-01-23T09:51:00.000-08:00<I> Bonus question: Name a movie that song was in.</I><BR/><BR/><B>How about five?</B><BR/><BR/> Kuffs (1992)<BR/> Campus Man (1987)<BR/> Something Wild (1986)<BR/> Dream a Little Dream (1989)<BR/> Allnighter, The (1987)<BR/><BR/>(i just <B>love</B> google!)Pam Hogeweidehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12667139057131247825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-6942686991487695892008-01-23T08:53:00.000-08:002008-01-23T08:53:00.000-08:00Wow, Erin, this is excellent.<BR/>You have put it together so well...all the expectations...all the opposition to put us back in the fenced yard.<BR/>The bible passage that you quoted was one brought up in church last week(all things are permissable, but...)...and some of the people had a cow when I said that it meant freedom.They tried to shut me down, but not this time.<BR/>I hate that another's freedom is so scary to them....<BR/>I'm looking forward to more about this....you are shedding some light on my life right now...Ché Vachonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15721110123682449128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16714549.post-84400016195566916852008-01-23T08:23:00.000-08:002008-01-23T08:23:00.000-08:00What comes to my mind as I read your post is Jesus words, You can't serve God and Mammon. I think evangelical women are set up trying to do both -- we're supposed to love God and all that, and also live up to the American suburban dream. The only way to make that work is to subvert the gospel into some fairy tale about perfect people living in sparkling houses. At the end of the day, we're just being asked to be Betty Crocker in the 21st century, which doesn't work too well given rising expectations, etc. The only freedom for women or men is going to come from smashing the idols and recapturing the gospel of the kingdom. It's a hard road, one that many Christians don't understand.Mariahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08264143140028197973noreply@blogger.com