Comments on Mapless: Kit Kat or M&Ms, it's Still Just Candy

Jeff - I think my issue is that the "new"...

2010-01-25T18:54:59.557-08:00

Jeff - I think my issue is that the "new" missional thing is to move into ghetto neighborhoods and think you're going to change the lives of the unsaved people.

Newsflash, unless you really get in there and really help meet peoples' needs, you're just another church with no care other than filling up heaven.

And I don't know these people, and I was really ranting against a model...I can't say anything about them other than what I heard in their sermons. So I might eat my words one day.

But the model remains...it's discrimination, plain and simple, thinking people "need" you to come preach the gospel to them, when all they've eaten for a week is mac-n-cheese.

And it is very much a trend to make everything a trend. People see a missional model that works, and they want to "DO THAT". Yeah.

Well, what does IT really mean? That is the question.

Not to diss on those who really do DO it and not just talk about it. I know some of them folk. :)

I don't know if it's like this everywhere,...

2010-01-25T18:44:13.286-08:00

I don't know if it's like this everywhere, but what you described sounds like something very common where I used to live--the trend to make everything a trend. :) When "emergent" becomes the new popular catch-phrase, churches all over the place start having separate "emergent" services and doing "emergent" church plants that are little more than a younger version of themselves. I wouldn't pass judgment on this particular group, not knowing anything about them...but I guess the idea this presents is both funny and annoying to me. :)

I'm sorry Ruth!

2010-01-24T11:08:57.370-08:00

I'm sorry Ruth!

You're absolutely right, Barry. You've sum...

2010-01-24T11:08:32.621-08:00

You're absolutely right, Barry. You've summed it up well. It doesn't matter what you believe, if it doesn't make people's lives better in a tangible way, no one will care.

Tears....you brought me to tears.

2010-01-24T10:57:33.402-08:00

Tears....you brought me to tears.

I can't comment on that particular group becau...

2010-01-23T16:34:40.583-08:00

I can't comment on that particular group because I know next to nothing about them, but I think too often Christians have been guilty of assuming that "the message" is all that matters - people will want what we have, the gospel will draw them, yadda yadda. What they tend to forget is that most people don't think in such concepts. What matters to most people isn't whether or not Christians (or whoever) believe the "right" things, but whether or not they are good.

"By their fruits you shall know them" is an apt saying here. People don't care what you say you believe, but they certainly notice how it affects your life and your attitude towards others.

Someone can believe the truth until the cows come home, but if they're antisocial, judgemental, or condescending then people will just avoid them. Of course, the built-in excuse is that such people are afraid of the gospel, whereas the reality is that all too often they're repelled by the very people who preach it.

Aphra, that sounds lovely. And I'm sure there ...

2010-01-23T11:04:35.858-08:00

Aphra, that sounds lovely. And I'm sure there are many truly sincere groups who really touch people in a tangible way.

This group, there was talk about "saving the neighborhood", but no talk (on their website) about how they want to do that, or what they plan to do, to really impact people's lives. The church is 6 months old, I'd think if they had some kind of plan, their website would say it. It seems more like they want to come into the neighborhhod and sit in their cute retail space with couches and preach about how they are changing lives...without actually doing anything.

But again, I'm being unfair...this is all based on first impressions. That's all.

Oh, and the whole "same old thing in a new wr...

2010-01-23T11:00:25.213-08:00

Oh, and the whole "same old thing in a new wrapper" doesn't strike me well, either. It seems almost insincere, like we can't really take the risk to be different, but we want to seem different so people who have issues with the old thing will want to join us. I don't know how to describe it, but I think you know what I mean.

Gary - You're so right. Now, I don't have ...

2010-01-23T10:58:41.157-08:00

Gary - You're so right. Now, I don't have the right to judge this group, not really, and I shouldn't. Their intentions are good.

It just struck me wrong, just like so many other church plants, "new" things, missional, emerging things that really don't have a clue about the real life of the people they hope to reach. They live in their letters-on-a-page world and think everyone wants to join them because of their "message".

And again, I don't know who these people are, and maybe they do have a clue and maybe they will be effective. But this is how they came across to me, and isn't there something important just in the way they seem to the outsider?

I think you would like our church very much from w...

2010-01-23T08:20:37.432-08:00

I think you would like our church very much from what you say. I wasn't sure if I wanted to write a comment because I don't want to sound like we are doing it right. We bought an old polish hall in a rough neighbourhood and renovated a bit but our mission has always been to love the neighbourhood. We have a meal together every sunday and a household goods store where we sell goods and clothes for cheap (free if the need arises). People from the community volunteer to run the store fur us. I think they love and teach us as much as we do them :) Come visit- if you can bear the snow! lol.

This rant is great! What a good reminder about the...

2010-01-23T07:51:00.744-08:00

This rant is great! What a good reminder about the "us and them" approach to "evangelism". Ugh, even that word repulses me now. If someone wants to change me, then they'd better be ready to invest some time in getting to know me. Plus, they'd better be able to demonstrate with their life that their beliefs aren't just some list of doctrines on paper (or online these days).

Especially as I move toward an experiment in hospitality, I need to keep this in mind.