Comments on Mapless: Introverts in the Church 4

Hi Anon - I don't know that all liturgical chu...

2010-04-05T21:58:48.663-07:00

Hi Anon - I don't know that all liturgical churches are cold and unfriendly, but I can see how that could be your experience. Being more systematic can cause people to feel more detached from one another.

I think I just figured out why I hated the Episcop...

2010-04-05T01:26:48.727-07:00

I think I just figured out why I hated the Episcopal and Orthodox churches despite being drawn to the beauty of their worship.

I never got why if their worship was supposedly so much more biblical, then why were their people mostly so cold and unfriendly. That more than anything was what drove me out of the liturgical churches.

Thanks Heidi. Your comment reminded me that I ne...

2010-03-03T08:05:49.985-08:00

Thanks Heidi.

Your comment reminded me that I never finished this series. I have terrible follow through. :)

good points.

2010-02-28T14:21:14.557-08:00

good points.

Sue - there is truth to that...using one or the ot...

2010-02-16T20:45:22.687-08:00

Sue - there is truth to that...using one or the other to hide...glad you have found a comfortable place in the balance.

Wow, great comments here!!! Thanks for your thoug...

2010-02-16T17:22:33.014-08:00

Wow, great comments here!!! Thanks for your thoughts, Randi Jo.

I was an extreme extrovert as a teenager - but I was also miserable, and I used my extroversion as a cover-up. I am so much more introverted these days, and I welcome and love the greater balance.

Wow Randi Jo, that was a full comment...and I agre...

2010-01-28T23:14:31.835-08:00

Wow Randi Jo, that was a full comment...and I agree with you.

As an introvert, I have some definite baggage from years of trying to be more extroverted than I am and paying an emotional price for it. So I think as long as we are sensible about it, it can be a good thing to stretch. Knowing our boundaries is a good thing.

That said, I do specifically try to go outside my comfort zone so that I don't become isolated.

Interesting thoughts, Sara. I agree with the book ...

2010-01-28T23:10:13.126-08:00

Interesting thoughts, Sara. I agree with the book you're reading...I have always said religion should be more an inward support structure driving outward behavior rather than focused on outward behavior (going to church) that is supposed to somehow to drive inward support. If that makes any sense.

yes! that's very much what I meant --- that a...

2010-01-27T13:48:57.792-08:00

yes! that's very much what I meant --- that as we grow with others in intimate fellowship - our personality weaknesses are sort of smoothed out and although like I said we never want clones..... we meet better in the middle.

As my husband became a lot more engaging with others... so I too learned to shut up a lot more and listen and be ok with silence!

I think that is what we are looking for in a church.... a place where we all have the freedom/room to speak/engage/contribute..... but never a place where 1 or 2 (or 3) strong personalities "run the show" (or even have a show at all!) but each personality is kept "in check" as related to the community/bigger group.

I will also add that as a once extreme extravert who has very much become introvertive in many ways... I was much lonelier when I was an extravert. Loneliness is something that affects all personalities. Sometimes the person who we feel is the most 'connected' or even sociable.. is actually inside the most lonely.

I DO think that in this world we are too independent and busy and we don't engage with others enough at all. So few reach out to others, have good quality intimate friendships or support group.... I am so thankful for what God has done in my hubby, who is an introvert in many ways --- but sees this same thing too and realizes there needs to be more people out there 'building bridges' - not taking over bridges/running things.... but building them - listening, caring, stepping out of our comfort zones and reaching out to others. We can't allow ourselves to be pigeon-holed into our personalities and think, 'that's just the way i was made'..... nor can we expect everybody to be the same. There must be a balance right? embracing personalities but being molded somehow to be able to engage and interat with others.

ramble ramble ramble

:) thanks for the response

the books is called "Live Sent." The gi...

2010-01-27T12:33:07.221-08:00

the books is called "Live Sent." The gist of it is that American churches are screwed up because we don't live into each other's lives and into the world enough . . . that the word "church" is too much identified with a place (the building) and event (Sunday morning) than with being a people together. I'm only a few chapters into it, but as I've been reading, I've had a niggling feeling that something about what he's saying is just off. Reading this post has me saying "Oh! That's a really extroverted book!"

I haven't read Beck's book yet, though it's definitely going on my (backlogged) reading list after reading your posts on it. I'll have to think more about the sociable/liturgical thing--but it makes a lot of sense that for Rob, in leading in worship, that the liturgy very much protects him as an introvert. It is not *him* up there leading with just his personality or whatever, but rather the liturgy leads all of us together to worship and he simply helps facilitate it. The liturgy makes for less personality-driven churches and leaves less room for egomaniacal control freaks to do whatever they want.

Sara - What book are you reading? I would be int...

2010-01-27T11:54:54.878-08:00

Sara - What book are you reading?

I would be interested to know what you and Rob think about the difference between liturgical traditions and what Richard Beck calls "sociable" churches, as far as how they affect an introvert. I haven't been a part of a liturgical church, other than a few occasions in my lifetime, so I can't really speak to it.

Hey Randi Jo, welcome! I think your questions ar...

2010-01-27T11:51:35.236-08:00

Hey Randi Jo, welcome!

I think your questions are valid and common. I think Richard Beck made an important distinction in the post I linked. He said introverts are social, they just aren't sociable, and there's a difference.

What I would say in response to your thoughts is this, do you think the same is true of extroverts? In other words, do they need to learn to be more introverted sometimes? If that's true, then I think there is something to be learned from each other. But I'd be careful how much weight I put on that need for us to branch out and stretch our personalities...unless in the same way we're going to ask the extroverts to learn to be silent and introspective sometimes.

I'm not trying to play tug of war here, just wanted to point out the flip side. If you meant that it goes both ways, then I agree, you're right.

this is a great series, Erin. and it's dove-t...

2010-01-27T09:50:46.505-08:00

this is a great series, Erin. and it's dove-tailing very nicely with a book I'm reading for a review soon. I especially find this liturgical/sociable dynamic interesting as I am an introvert married to an introverted pastor who's leading a liturgical (Presbyterian) church.

hey! :) these are really challenging posts for me....

2010-01-27T09:35:58.490-08:00

hey! :) these are really challenging posts for me.

I just don't know if I agree with it or not. I mean, obviously I agree with the observations - I just wonder if it's okay to say, "that's just how I was made"... I guess mostly because my husband is really introverted --- but as God has worked in him... he *does* engage with others, reach out to others and probably looks "sociable" to others like you've described here. I think that God has blessed us each with unique personalities and we need to embrace that diversity and have grace for each other in every situation -- as we understand we are all different... BUT at the same time... each of our personalities has weaknesses and I believe that God's spirit in us does change the personality. Not that we're all clones - it's important to embrace how we were created.....

but I guess for example I think about my husband who never really "engaged" with others outside of 'his circle' and I've seen God show and teach him how much he was missing out on. I believe he (we) realized how few people truly reach out to others - not to shake a hand and get a name... but really just make them feel important, listen to them, etc.... we are built for relationship, no matter our personality.

anyway -- that's enough rambling hehe I just figured I'd share a bit of my reaction as I've read this. I can't really say I "get it". I clearly have a lot to learn as well --- but there's a bit of my perspective!