Last Friday, my friend Pam had the opportunity to be on a radio program featuring Paul Young, author of The Shack. The program is a regular part of OPB called Think Out Loud, and the episode is titled "Relationships and Religion".
The program also featured, as part of the conversation, local pastor of The Evergreen Community and blogger Bob Hyatt; as well as James Wellman, author of Evangelical vs. Liberal: The Clash of Christian Cultures in the Pacific Northwest.
This program can be found as a podcast on iTunes, (look for a date of August 1st, 2008, "Relationships and Religion") and I highly recommend listening to it. I took copious notes so I could impart to you some of the gems of the conversation, but it's well worth a 53-minute listen in its entirety.
(All quotes are Paul Young speaking.)
The program also featured, as part of the conversation, local pastor of The Evergreen Community and blogger Bob Hyatt; as well as James Wellman, author of Evangelical vs. Liberal: The Clash of Christian Cultures in the Pacific Northwest.
This program can be found as a podcast on iTunes, (look for a date of August 1st, 2008, "Relationships and Religion") and I highly recommend listening to it. I took copious notes so I could impart to you some of the gems of the conversation, but it's well worth a 53-minute listen in its entirety.
(All quotes are Paul Young speaking.)
"All the religious stuff in my history, as much as I pursued God looking for a way to please him and get the affection of the father...none of it healed the stuff. It didn't change me on the inside. It wasn't until bad theology fell away and a relationship opened up and then I began to find out God had been there the whole time and waiting for me to be ready to deal with [the stuff]."
...
"For me, religion and relationship are very very contradictory ideas; you can come up with any religion you want that posits either an impersonal or personal God at a distance, and now it's up to you to find your way there through a series of steps or finding the right road or something like that, rather than a God that knows how lost we are and then pursues us. That's the incarnation to me, that is God becoming flesh in the person of Jesus Christ and that that then becomes all about relationship and relationship destroys religion.
...
"Any conversation about life is theology. It's going to permeate everything you do. Music, acting, nature. You are having a theological conversation on some level."
...
"When someone asks me "Paul are you a Christian?" I say, "Well tell me what one of those is and I'll tell you if I'm one of them".
14 comments:
Paul Young is the coolest ever ...
But the title of that book "Evangelical vs. Liberal" makes me sad. Why does it have to be such a zero-sum game? Why do we have to pick? Why can't a person be both an evangelican AND a liberal? Who decided that you havta choose?
sonja:
isn't the book proving that you can be both ?
More and more of these christian authors and writers spout off things that sound an awful lot like my beliefs. I find it interesting that so many of these churches are starting to get some seriously Pagan leanings.
We aren't supposed to be as similar as all of that, are we? Aren't we supposed to be the evil ones, the ones with the wrong ways that sound more and more like christians nowadays (and it isn't us that are changing that much).
Sonja - I agree about the title. I do think one can be both, what I got from the little the author said during the podcast was that he was addressing the fact that there shouldn't be a disparity between the two; unfortunately there is.
Jeff - That's what I got, too. But I haven't read it so I can't know for sure.
Steven - Tell me, what seems similar from your perspective? Does that bother you or encourage you that these things are becoming more similar?
I think some Christians are finally willing to take ownership for the things they have gotten wrong in the past, and maybe some of that does lead to similarities that weren't there before.
Erin, my favorite part was the last quote on your blog. I am soooo going to use that line next time I get asked that. I always hate being asked that question because what "Christian" means to many makes me just shudder! Now I know how to respond thanks to Paul Young.
The concept that it is about relationship rather than religion. The concept that theology permeates everything. The concept that there is not a god somewhere removed requiring a prescribed song and dance to get to where he is, but rather that the distance is only because the individual isn't paying attention.
This interpersonal relationship concept is one that I have only ever run across with Pagans until recently. Even in the metaphors. We dance with the Goddess, christians say "He walks with me." It just always sounds like a professional relationship at a respectful distance when you talk to christians.
No, it doesn't bother me that more of these speakers and writers are starting to echo Starhawk, Aranea and Cabot and many other writers and speakers in that area. I think it is great. Of course, I have also never seen it as a competition.
Tracy - I agree. It's a great point.
Thanks for sharing that, Steven. I agree with you, it does seem that the similarities are growing, at least in one faction of Christianity. I have no real explanation except that maybe we are wising up and finally realizing law doesn't solve everything.
While I don't know your personal beliefs all that well, I think what you said about rather than there being a "song and dance" to related to a removed God, it's only about bridging the distance by paying attention to what is around us (OK I'm putting words in your mouth there)...sounds pantheistic (which actually is a biblical concept, although I tend more toward the panentheistic view) and maybe that is something we are learning (or relearning) as well.
thanks for the shout out, erin!
so hey, that's interesting about some similarities steven is discovering between christians and pagans. and why not? we are all seekers of God and truth. within each of us is a longing to encounter the Creative Force of the Universe, which I believe is God and his son is Jesus. I do not think it is a red flag when christians and pagans find common ground. I suspect that common ground is more about the human condition than anything else. We all want to be in sync with the reality of a Supreme Being and relationship with him. The more intimate, the better. Where our disagreement tends to lie is in Who this Supreme Being is.
I think Steven rightly observed that many of us Christ followers tend to use language that suggests a professional relationship with God, rather than a deep, meaningful dynamic exchange. Thanks for that insight, Steven. I'll probably quote you at some point in my journey!
Pam - You forgot to say Him/HER, lol. We need not leave out the feminine nature, these days. We're already heretics.
There is a lot of truth in what you say, and no, I don't get the red flags anymore, either. I do think learning to have respect for other people's spiritual realities is a huge lesson for me.
Or shall I say hate and fear is a "lesson (well)unlearned"?
Well played, clerk. :)
I thought so. ;-)
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