8.15.2006

Miracles

Sorry, but I'm feeling long-winded today.

Today at Signposts there is some discussion about this article.

A couple quotes from the article:
"American missionary Heidi Baker is not a normal preacher. When she spoke at a conference last week in Ohio, she delivered half of her sermon while lying on the floor. She was clutching the microphone while her forehead was resting on the carpet.

"... She interrupted her message several times with the high-pitched giggling that has become her trademark.

"... Baker easily could have positioned herself as a Christian superstar. Fluent in several languages, she is a gifted communicator with advanced educational degrees. She also has seen astounding miracles during her 30 years of ministry, especially in Mozambique, where she and her husband, Rolland, have planted more than 7,000 “bush churches,” five Bible schools and four children’s feeding centers since 1990.

"Just days before she arrived in Cincinnati, Baker prayed for two blind beggars who wandered into her tent meeting at her base in Pemba, Mozambique. Both men instantly received their sight after Baker wet her fingers with saliva and touched their eyes.

"Such astounding miracles are common to Heidi and Rolland. They have seen God supernaturally multiply rice and chili to feed hungry orphans. Heidi has watched paralytics walk for the first time after they received prayer. And indigenous pastors the Bakers trained in Mozambique have raised 53 people from the dead so far."
The article is posted at Charisma Magazine Online, but I also got it in my e-mail inbox yesterday via NextReformationNews and when I read it, it raised my hackles - or shall I say "My spirit of discernment became quite shaken." [To be fair, I will also reference the Baker's website, Iris Ministries.]

Dan at Signposts says this about the article:
"I have a whole series of books on people trying to prove that miracles occur and trying to document “miraculous” happenings. It must be the sceptic in me that reaches out to these kinds of things. What do others think?"
Well, this is what I think: 7,000 bush churches? That's a feat, considering that's averaging 1.2 churches each day for those 16 years. And 53 people raised from the dead but the Western media has not caught wind of it? I sense a conspiracy.

I am woman, hear me scoff.

Articles like this make me (a charismatic) chringe (typo intended). Now I'm not going to go so far as to say these things never happened. I wasn't there so I can't claim to know for *sure*.

But let's be serious here ...

In the circles I run in we hear stuff like this all the time. Experiences of mass miracles, miraculous healings, risings-from-the-dead etc. We hear of them from well known and well *respected* teachers.

To be totally honest, we never (in my experience) actually see them, but as charismatics we are expected to believe in them.

That's not to say I haven't witnessed miracles.

I have not, in a lifetime of being a *signs-n-wonders* christian ever witnessed a miraculous healing that didn't involve Doctors. But I have heard of people who are being treated for cancer suddenly being healed with no medical explanation. I have not seen cash fall from heaven, but I have personally had a financial struggle, prayed for help and seen a check appear in the mail from some legitimate source (like I overpayed on car insurance or some such thing) for the exact amount that I need. I have not seen 5 cheeseburgers feed thousands of people, but I have seen someone who was desperately in need pray for food and have a stranger leave a box of food on their porch 10 minutes later.

No Christian will say that God does not take care of us.

But as far as the kinds of claims Heidi Baker makes, I too, as Dan from Signposts, am a skeptic.

A couple interesting points from the comments at Signposts:
Lionfish says: "The healing process that occurs naturally coupled with the intellect of our medical practioners is wonderful witness in itself. Look at the fringes of the natural and you will witness the wonder of what I would term ‘common’ miracles that occur all the time - all around us."
Stu says: "i’m left asking myself, “where do miracles happen and would i believe it if i saw it?” and then “would anyone here else believe me if i told them?” in which case “is it only a sign for the witnesses to the miracle?” which leads me to, “why throw cold water on these stories we hear from yonder when it isn’t meant to make a difference for me anyway?”
The Rev says (emphasis mine) : "I have seen miracles first hand. We will be having a discussion on miracles at the Cave on Sunday night. We will be looking at a passage in Acts and talking about how it applies to us. I hope we can look at a healthy practical position in between the two extremes: If it cannot be duplicated in a double blind scientific test it didn’t happen and the extremes of the word faith movement and the lusting after signs and wonders to somehow make our faith real."
That last part that I bolded is where I stand. Both claiming that miracles DO NOT exist and calling down miracles from heaven on demand are a far cry from how we're supposed to approach this.
  • God performs miracles.
  • Jesus performed miracles while He was on earth and I'm sure He has a hand in present day miracles, too.
  • The Holy Spirit assists in the manifestation of miracles.
  • The disciples performed miracles as documented in the NT.
  • Mother Theresa performed *miracles* by the tangible, active difference she personally made in people's lives through her selflessness and sacrifice.
  • We DO NOT perform miracles. We witness them.
I have a hard time when we claim to be purveyors of the miraculous. I know these people attribute miracles to God, but really, who gets the glory in the end?

We ARE supposed to believe that God is capable of intervening in our real-time lives. We are to seek Him at all times, not just in times of need, and we are to believe He cares about our welfare. We are to praise Him when He chooses to advocate for us, change our circumstances, or provide for us in unexpected or unexplainable ways.

Back to the comments at Signposts:
akevin says this (emphasis mine) : "Most people miss the miraculous because they are looking for the spectacular. And, What IS a miracle - it is anything that God does for you that you cannot do yourself… (my take anyway) - That’s why miraculous things happen and we MISS it, because it wasn’t BIG or NOTICABLE or WOW!"
I will admit that the *signs-n-wonders* system does "feel good". I can't say that I haven't heard a powerful prophetic word or experienced intense and moving worship. I can't say that every well-known person who claims to perform or witness large miracles on a regular basis is entirely full of shit. But I tend to lean into the teachers who say "Ya know, every day is a miracle", or "God put food on my table today when we prayed for it", and away from the ones who say "I raised 12 people from the dead last month."

When someone defines their ministry by the miraculous, expecting God to perform on demand like a monkey on a string is wrong [I hesitate to say *evil*] and contributes heavily to the mass exodus from church that we are seeing today.

So I was talking with my Father-in-law the other day. He is a Pastor and has recently prepared a teaching on "spiritual gifts". We didn't have the opportunity to get into an in-depth discussion about it, so I e-mailed him:
"I wouldn't mind reading your teachings on the Spiritual Gifts. I am very interested to learn more about what your experience has taught you on the subject. I would come to the classes you are teaching, and I appreciate your invitation, but I am still honestly not quite ready yet to return to a kind of church environment. Though I have worked my way from bitterness to forgiveness, I am still apprehensive of "church".

"But a good part of why I left is relevant to the subject - something you mentioned - the abuse of spiritual gifts. I know there are different definitions of "spiritual gifts" and to be honest, everything I know about the subject is naturally from a charismatic perspective [often centering around the gifts in 1 Cor. 12:8-10]. After experiencing certain kinds of abuses specific to the "miraculous" gifts, my perspective has changed. Though I guess the definition of "abuse" can be subjective, I believe that if it hurts people it isn't good. That's not to say I deny the existence of these "miraculous" gifts [because all the gifts can be abused, abuse doesn't disprove existance], but I hold a much more conservative view of them than I used to. "
From a charismatic standpoint, spiritual gifts include the gifts of healings, tongues, discerning of *spirits* and prophecy. There is good in these things, and I do believe they authentically manifest through the Holy Spirit on occasion, as He wills. I have also witnessed first-hand how excessive emphasis or focus on these gifts is not only not *edifying* but even harmful to the body as a whole and to people as individuals.

I guess I could go on and on about my experiences and the hurts I have seen. But the bottom line is that while the manifestation gifts do exist and miracles do occur, and I don't discount the possibility that God can perform mass miracles on demand (not because I have witnessed such, but only because I know better than to put God in a box), and I know we have all experienced the *miraculous* intervention of God in our personal lives ...

... I think we are better off focusing on the day-to-day miracles we all experience of loving laughing and living.


5 comments:

  1. i knew heidi when i lived in hong kong eons ago. and i spent time in her home (eons ago) when they lived in CA before launching out to Mozambique. ONe of my best friends is very tight with her and Rolland.

    It's not hype, seriously. The reason the church number is so high is that existing churches ask to come under their umbrella. It's a network of many networks tying together like a big fishing net. They help provide training and conferences and all that good stuff that poor Africans have a tough time pulling off.

    I'm a natural born skeptic. But the Baker's, they're the real thing. The character of the people that I know that vouch for them is what convinces me. But yeah, there is a lot of hype. And of course, the obvious is always glaring: if you can heal 'em in Africa how come not the USA? Now THAT, would be a miracle!!!

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  2. i mean there's a lot of hype in general in charismatic circles for healing ministry. exaggeration, gullibleness, manipulation, all that fun stuff.

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  3. Hey Pam,

    Why did I expect you'd have something to say about this ;)

    To be honest, I don't know much about the Baker's ministry, and yes, I was picking on them, maybe unfairly. But raising people from the dead? That's sure to raise my discernment hackles. When I hear about that, then all else loses credibility for me.

    I think what I'm getting at is I have been in the mix of this stuff virtually all my life. It's so interesting to me that we charismatics hear of all kinds of miraculous stuff in the remote places of the world but never witness it ourselves.

    I don't want to go so far as to say that because I haven't seen it with my own two eyes then it didn't happen. But I have never known anyone who has witenessed a genuine dead-raising. People have given me all kinds of explanations for why we don't witness this kind of stuff in the US, but so far no explanation has been to my satisfacton.

    Certainly my perspctive has centered over the last year or two, too. A few years ago you couldn't convince me that this stuff was NOT true, even to the point that I taught classes on why these kinds of miracles still exist today.

    But in having to be brutally honest about all things *faith*, I have had to take a good hard look at the evidence for this kind of stuff. Even in the ultra-charismatic circles I ran in, we heard a lot of talk, but saw few real examples of the existance of even simple faith healings, tongues, etc., let alone dead-raisings.

    I would love to talk with you more about this stuff, as I know your experience is different than mine. Maybe you can shed some light for me. I am wanting to be open-minded, in this post I was just telling it like I see it at this point in time. That's not to say my perspective couldn't change.

    Thanks for chatting. Let's book a date soon. Miss ya.

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  4. Lets face it. Most people in America don't have enough faith to step out of their comfort zone and do what God is really calling them to do. We are way too comfortable with our lives, our material possesions, our jobs. Now you are coming down on a woman that has given up all of these things to do what God has actually called her to do. To live in poverty, to give up every comfort that she could have had. We wonder why these things happen in remote areas? We wonder why we don't see them? Maybe it's because these people have followed what God has called them to do. Maybe we ought to take a closer look at ourselves and how we are living. I go to the vineyard community church in springdale and I wish i could have gone to that conference. We have prayer teams that pray for people and i know several people who have received miraculous healings.

    As far as glory and fame. I don't see anyone worshiping Mrs. Baker. She is doing what God has called her to do which is a good thing. But other than that she is not claiming to be God. She is giving all the Glory to God. Aren't we suppose to do things to glorify God? Jesus gave authority to His deciples. Aren't we all His deciples? We don't pray in our names, we pray in His name. For He is the King. It is His power that runs through all of us. He is the reason why we have live in the first place, and that life isn't ours to do with as we please, it should be His.

    I don't know what you people do. I don't even know who you are and it's not mine to judge you. But instead of bashing someone else why don't you look at the log in your own eye. What is stopping you from miraculous healings? Why did the deciple sink when he stepped out of the boat?

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  5. Hi Asher

    I appreciate and respect the things you have said. Really, I do. It seems you are frustrated with my skepticism, and I can accept that.

    I think (like I said in my response to Pam's comment) I may have picked in the Baker's unfairly and I'm sorry for that. I was basing my comments on a single article that I read, otherwise I know little of their ministry. I think so often the spirit in which these things are written and talked about is as much or more the problem with my attitude about them.

    I understand what you are trying to say about faith, and I have heard countless people speak on the subject of faith and miracles. But in truth, even in the churches I have been involved in that preach and teach these things, I have not witnessed or experienced them. I personally do not know anyone who knows anyone who has ever witnessed someone being raised from the dead. I can stratch as far as miraculous healings and such, but at the point that resurrections begin to be talked about, I become wary. It's not that God CAN'T do it, but I'm not sure He does.

    You have reasons for believing these things as much as I have reason for not. I'm not saying they DON'T happen, or that they CANNOT happen. I'm not even saying that I don't WANT to believe these things. I just find it very difficult.

    However, I have been involved in several charismatic churches (including a Vineyard one on some level) most of my life, and I just don't see the evidence.

    Yes, it often happens in remote places, especially among indigeneous people who, yes, do lead a very different life from us in America, and they *may* posess a miraculous faith that we generally don't.

    Maybe I am "sinking", I won't hesitate to say that you could be right and I could be wrong. But I'm not convinced.

    Thanks for sharing, though. I always appreciate different opinions.

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